About the funny anchors on the Buck model 184

not2sharp

not2sharp

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The now discontinued Buck Buckmaster (Model 184) had a very enigmatic feature; two round pins (anchors) which were threaded to attach to the guard. The assembly had a design strength of 600 lbs, and was designed to work in conjunction with a heavy rotating lanyard ring mounted near the pommel.

I don't know how many times I have heard this feature described as a grapple. But, I am certain that that is not what it is. You were not supposed to throw the knife over a castle wall to scale it. Such a move would have been darn dangerous to one's health; not to mention, it voided the warranty.

When in doubt it always pays to look at the obvious. The reason these pins were called anchors is because that was precisely how they were intended to be used. We should recall that the knife was originally designed for the US Navy Seals and intended as a diving knife. If you are planning on going in with scuba equipment, and have any hope of carrying out a precision attack, you will have to stage the attack before it commences. You may need to hold in place off some beach head while waiting for the rest of your team to get into their positions. It is hard to just float in the ocean, and swimming against a current is exhausting at best. But, if you can jam the pins on your buckmaster under a rock, you could simply tie into the lanyard and just float around and relax.

That is probably how this feature of the knife was intended to be used. So, if you have one these, don't throw it. Instead, you should just place it in position and float away.


n2s



n2s
 
not2sharp

Sounds reasonable and a very convincing argument. Incorrect, I think, but very convincing.

The left side of my 184 blade is marked U.S.PAT 4622707. The patent covers using a knife as a grappling hook. The attached drawings look amazingly like the 184. Fascinating reading. Go here to view:

Patent 4622707

BTW, the patent was not issued to BUCK but to Charles A Finn on 11-18-86. I wonder if he was a BUCK employee. Hey Will, you out there? Chime in, please.

I don't believe I would use my 184 in the manner described in the patent application. If you need a grappling hook, use a grappling hook, not a knife. Your idea would probably be much more useful.

Just one man's opinion.

Mike
 
Mike,

Thanks for a very informative link.

I still suspect that the knife was intended to be used in the manner that I described. The original design and prototype work on what would become the model 184 was done by Phrobis in 1983. You can see photos of the original Phrobis versions of the Buckmaster and Buckmaster Lite in Homer Brett's, The Military Knife and Bayonet (ISBN 4846523012). It was later licensed to Buck Knives and produced commencing 1984. In 1985 Buck appreciated that the design was very popular and decided to protect the design through a Patent application. The Patent was granted in November of 1986.

Charles A Finn may not have been a member of the original design team and his patent submission may simply have captured the marketing spin on these anchors. He would have been at least two years and one company removed from the original design work, and his mission to protect the design may have been better served by a broader definition of these anchors. Would it have been enough to protect the design of a sub-aquadic anchoring device?

It would be interesting to find out what role Mr. Finn played and whether he would have been in a position to have an insight on this feature.

n2s
 
HI NS2; by any chance would you happen to have an extra set of thoses funny little anchor pins? if you do please let me know. thanks and god bless.
BCCI LIFETIME MEMBER 1135
Larry D Fletcher <>< :)
 
Tattoo,

About a month ago BUCK still had a very small inventory of the anchors available. They may still have a set for you.

n2s
 
while not intended for any real use, the extensions on the buckmaster handle were intended to be a grapple. You are supposed to leave the knife in the sheath when you throw it.
 
You are supposed to leave the knife in the sheath when you throw it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but the sheath does not detach from its suspension harness. It is held in place by a snap and two phillip screws. You can throw the whole rig (pouches and all), but, would seem like a pretty awkward throwing device. It would probably break on contact too.

Then again, the original Phrobis versions had traditional leather sheaths. I guess you would have to unhook your belt and risk having your pants fall off in combat to throw it. :D

I believe alot of the design criteria came directly from the Navy Seals. Perhaps someone can dig up a tender, or a least a memo, listing their specific requirements for the knife.

n2s
 
Does that mean Mr. Finn is just putting around?

I know, I know. I shouldn't quit my day job.

not2sharp

You stated that Buck applied for a patent and received it in Nov. of 1986. Doesn't that mean that Mr. Finn must have worked for Buck. If he did not, how was he granted a patent for a knife design that was in production in 1985? Just trying to clear this up in my own mind.

On a side note, does anyone know where the pouches that were available as an accessory for the 184 may be had? Like a dummy I didn't get them when I bought the knife. Sure would like to have a set now.

Mike
 
You stated that Buck applied for a patent and received it in Nov. of 1986. Doesn't that mean that Mr. Finn must have worked for Buck.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, or, perhaps he was issued a patent as Phrobis, and then licensed Buck to use the design.

Spare pouches and sheaths are hard to find. Whatever, was sold has long since been mated to a knife.

n2s
 
THANKS NS2; I CHECKED WITH JOE ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO AND BUCK WAS OUT OF THE ANCHOR PINS, SO IF ANY ONE HAS AN EXTRA SET PLEASE LET ME KNOW.THANKS AND GOD BLESS.
BCCI LIFETIME MEMBER 1135
Larry D Fletcher <>< :)
 
Old Coastie check with Buck regarding the pouches. I bought a large one from them for my Buckmaster within the last year. It cost about $11 and they had about 6 left. Good Luck:)
 
I recall someone explaining the diver while wearing the Buckmaster was suppose to secure a line at one point and tie the rope over his sheathed blade with hooks attached, in order sit through and brave the ocean currents.

Krizzard, out

"...Whoever kills with the sword must be killed by the sword... "
- The New Testament, Revelation 13:10
 
Don't know about the anchors, but the knife always fascinated me when I was a kid (still does). I'd think they'd be usefull for keeping your fingers sliced during a knife fight. Plus, if you stuck the knife and anchors into the ground, I'd say the canted anchors would hold it pretty secure. Who knows what they are though. These are just what I thought they were for when I was a younger lad.
 
I know that when the knife first came out I was at an NRA show working a booth for Buck and we had a line, at least ten people deep, all day long. Guess what they all wanted to know? "What are these anchor pins for?"
I have heard all of the above ideas but the one that makes the most sense, at least to my pointy little brain, is that they were intended to help a guy go under a chain link fence. You would tie your rope to the lanyard ring and toss the knife, while in the sheath, over the fence. You would then hook one of the pins on the bottom of the fence, pull the rope, and raise the fence like a curtain.
Please, if this idea is far fetched, keep it too yourself, I like thinking that the pins are there for more than the fact that they add to the "cool" factor of the knife! :D
 
...the one that makes the most sense, at least to my pointy little brain, is that they were intended to help a guy go under a chain link fence.
Click to expand...

The pins wouldn't be able to hook onto anything less then a foot off the ground. It would have to be a pretty loose fence for this to work. I would probably just roll under it and wave at the guy from the other side of the fence as he tried it. :D

I know the US SEALs have some discretion in the procurement process, but you would expect at least a memo or two to surface.

n2s
 
Could the pins have been intended to pull a barbed/razor wire fence out of the way from behind cover, just in case it was rigged with an explosive?
 
I remember seeing pictures of the Buckmaster many years ago. Some pictures had the pins pointing from the guard down towards the tip of the blade and others had the pins pointing from the guard up towards the pommel.

I always assumed that they were to aid knife fighting techniques. With the pins towards the blade they could be used to trap an enemies blade and with them pointing towards the pommel they helped to protect your fingers from an enemies blade. Ideally you could have one pointing one way and one the other.

I always assummed this was what they were for but then we all know what they say about assumptions.;)

Tony.
 
Tony,

The pins mount below the guard and point away from the blade. I have seen a couple of knives that have been taken apart and reassembled with the guard reversed, but the pins only fit one way on the factory version.

n2s
 
Thanks for the info N2S,

Well that's blown my theory right out of the water. Should have used my anchor.:D

Tony.
 
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