About waterstone finishes

I

itrade

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Jul 3, 2002
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645
Crayola mentioned finishing with waterstones - my interest was piqued. That has lead me into some interesting areas. Like Japanese Sword finishing - which is all done with stones. The different types and qualities of man-made stones (natural are waaaay too expensive). ....

Has anybody here (other than Crayola) tried it? I'm thinking using stones all the way thru 8000 grit is a great idea. What kind of finish does one expect?

I'm about ready to plunk down the $$ to try this out.

Steve
 
You will be one of the very few finishing blades this way. I have often thought about it at least for finishing off fullers in swords but I may not have the energy. This is one of the reasons I havent made a sword yet. I really think the retail price of the finished knife/sword will be a motivator to try it. It may not be as slow as I think. The finish will be awsome!

Show us what you come up with.
 
you really wont get the same finish if you use man made stones past a certain point. the man made stones of the higher grits will react diffently to the steel than the really good natural stones. some polishers use artificail stones up to the koma-nagura level, but then swith to natural stones. if you are looking for a somewhat inexpensive way to use natural stones i suggest you go here: www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/english/index.html you will find a basic start up kit. now bear in mind that this kit probaly doesnt offer the very highest quality natural uchigumori and jizuya stones. some of the really good stones can cost up in the thousands, but this would be a way to try your finishing with some nice natural stones. in my opinion finishing blades with stones is a true art form, all be it a very difficult one to master. also check these sites to see what some very good polishers can do with stones. www.legacyswords.com/index.htm www.summerchild.com/summer.html also this link may be helpfull: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10552 you may have to enter this last link manually
 
Just keep in mind that stones designed for sharpening and honing chisels, knives, etc are different than the stones designed for sword polishing. With the exception of the uchigumori stones and shiage (finish polish) stuff, all of the foundation stones can be found in synthetic form. The synthetic form of these stones will work essentially the same as the natural versions, only they tend to be more clean and consistent, and will be cheaper overall.

However, even with the synthetic polishing stones, you are looking at a significant cost, you can still spend around $1000 on a set of stones with a decent uchigumori. If you are not serious about getting into that, it may be wise to look elsewhere.

As far as the sharpening stones (not always true but a general rule of thumb: if it says "waterstone" and has a grit number, it is for knife/chisel sharpening/honing, not for sword polishing), I'm not sure what kind of finish they would impart on a knife's primary surfaces. Best way to find out would be to experiment a little I guess.
 
Thanks very much for the information leads.

Right now I'm hand rubbing s30v 800 grit then in the same direction with 1200 grit. I like the way that looks.

I've ordered a high quality man-made stone in 1000 grit. The salesman said you can actually go from 320 to 1000, because the 1000 cuts sooo fast.

If this works, I'll pick up the 320, 2000 and 5000 stones and try that. (A man made 30,000 grit stone is only $600!) These seem to be among the finest man made stones available: http://www.shaptonstones.com/stones/Professional-Series.php.

Robert, I'll try this out before I look into real polishing stones - it is really facinating, but $$.

Re: traditional sword polishing I found some more information. The thing that confirms what you guys are saying is the 10 year apprenticeship! Ouch. OK I won't even try and go for a full mirror polish with stones. However, If I can get a classy hand rubbed finish with equal or less time - I'm in.

Besides, for marketing it'd be cool. "Custom Knife with Japanese waterstone finish" Oughta be good for an additional $100 :D

Steve
 
Hey! Allow me to add a bit here...

My research and experimentation has been fun and rewarding. Indeed, the sharpening stones and polishign stones are quite different. Not only are polishign stones more friable, manmade stones have binders in them which may or may not affect a finish. I think it does. Also, as it turns out, polishing stone aprticles are more rounded, while sharpening stone aprticles are quite sharp all over- makes for a different finish.

Bottom line is you won't get a japanese sword polish with tool sharpenign stones.

There are several western makers using stones to finish blades though. Lots of the stone used, though, are oilstones used in places that make dyes and such. They finish precision machine parts with these stones to get a nice surface, so lots of makers use the stones for their blades. Tim Hermann really got me on the idea of polishign with stones. I also talked with Robert about using waterstones, and I took info from Bob Engnath too.

Basically I turned to stones to get a nice hand finish faster that is also more perfect. I don't care too much (so far) for higher grits (80 and such), but I do love my 200 grit green stone for cleaning up scratches and refining the lines. I definitely will be using a mix of rough grit stones and medium grit paper for now.

just a suggestion for you. Buy one stone at a time if you are going to experiment. No point buying a whole "set" if you can't get results from them. If you can get nice finishes at the 800 grit level, then get your 1000 or a 1200 grit stone. If the finish improves, then get a 2000 grit stone and see.

Good luck experimenting!
 
Crayola, et al.

Thanks for the added information. So the sharpening stones have a fundamental difference from polishing stones. That's OK.

The question for me is: How are the sharpening waterstones differenent than the SC paper I'm using now? That is going to be the big issue for me, since my goal is not a Japanese polish, but a better hand rubbed blade.

Man I can't wait for that first stone to get here.

Steve

PS I found this on Engnath's site - thanks Crayola!

http://www.engnath.com/public/stoned.htm
 
Rock on man!

Keep us posted on your progress! I'll do the same. Since I have tha spear point doen half with the stone and half with paper, I am going to experiment again. I'll hit the waterstone's side with SiC paper and see how fast the finish comes up. I am hoping ti will only take minutes to get a 320 grit finish. On the side that I used 180 grit paper I'm going to hit with a stone tonight. Get them damned deep scratches out and then I'll use paper! Maybe I'll lap my 800 grit stone and then use that, and then go to 400 grit paper to see what's up. At any rate, I won't lose much time as those stones cut fast :)
 
Another,less expensive way is brick red EDM stones from MSC. They are for Finishing/polishing dies, and several makers use them to help get an excellent finish.
 
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