ABS vs Knifemakers Guild

DanF

DanF

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Apr 17, 2017
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I know American Bladesmith Society promotes forging, other than that what’s the difference between the two?
If you were going to support one or the other, which would it be and why?
 
It seems the Guild has much less influence than it once had. Maybe it still has strong local chapters in certain areas?
 
I agree with Larrin. The Guld used to be a very big force in knifemaking. Then it waned as new people went with the ABS. Now, there are so many makers it isn't as big a deal as it used to be to put ABS or Guild on your paperwork. I know the ABS folks are very proud of their JS and MS marks, but it isn't the thing it was once.
 
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Both answers fit what I was thinking.
And, I believe there is a subtle membership drive starting (again), that touts one method as being superior to the other (not the first time and I’m sure it won’t be the last, and I don’t want this thread to become about that).
As someone who practices both methods, I don’t have a dog in that hunt, but I wish there was more local-ish representation of BOTH methods, instead of having to drive many hours to an event.
 
I have strong opinions about this question, and I am a member of both groups. Been in the Guild since 2013, and am slowly creeping toward JS certification. I make what I want... sometimes stock removal stainless, sometimes folding knives, sometimes do my own Damascus, some forged blades. Pitting the two methodologies or groups as somehow opposed to each other is a fallacy. I hope the world of knives has moved on past that, even if in some subtle ways the two groups perpetuate the drama.

Honestly both groups have struggled to evolve, but I'd say the Guild is further behind the curve. ABS runs by board decisions, Guild by voting memberships. Either method works, provided that the board makes good decisions, or that the board puts forward thinking ideas out to the members to vote. Neither has much online presence, although the ABS has quality forums. None are active on social media even to a standard Generation X level.

ABS has a stronger education program, with established schools. There are local "guilds" in many states, like our Texas Knifemakers' Guild that has over 300 members, but these groups are not officially connected to the Guild. Your local connections will be your biggest asset, and if you can connect with folks who have taken the time to up their game enough to certify in either group, you'll be better off.

If you look at it like buying a product, where you pay the fee and get the stuff, ABS is a better value but neither is a good investment. That said, you very much get out what you put in, outside the financial aspects. Both groups will push you to make better knives, and both groups will connect you with more experienced makers, and to a smaller degree with more experienced collectors or customers.

All that said, IMO your experience with either group will come down to how much you build relationships with the members. That's why I send dues to them both, personally.

Final thought... A group is really only as good as its membership. If I choose not to participate, or if you choose not to, both us and the group lose benefit. You'll not learn anything, and the groups will continue to stagnate. IMO, join them both. It's the only way either will have a chance to rebuild, and it's the best way for you to connect with other skilled makers.
 
One issue with the Guild is the cost. They want a $75 a year just to be an associate member, and if you have a voting membership its $200 a year. Frankly, I don't know what you get with a guild membership besides the name.

The ABS is a lot cheaper and has much more to offer. They have schools, classes in many places, hammer-ins ( not as many as before), and other things.

I just tried to pull up the Knife Makers Guild website to link it and it doesn't seem available anymore?
The American Bladesmith Society - http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=205
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
One issue with the Guild is the cost. They want a $75 a year just to be an associate member, and if you have a voting membership its $200 a year. Frankly, I don't know what you get with a guild membership besides the name.

The ABS is a lot cheaper and has much more to offer. They have schools, classes in many places, hammer-ins ( not as many as before), and other things.

I just tried to pull up the Knife Makers Guild website to link it and it doesn't seem available anymore?
The American Bladesmith Society - http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=205
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I had been a member of ABS but the distances you have to drive are (to me), prohibitive. I suspect I bought most, if not all their DVD’s, and many others besides. That was money well spent, IMO (with the exception of a funky little dvd on building a forge that I used for target practice), and became my primary tools to distance learn from.
There is a blacksmith’s association within an hour of me that was sanctioned to hold an ABS class a couple years ago, but I’ve heard nothing of it since.
Always wondered why the guild did not have some type of cert process similar to the MS/JS program.
And, there seems to be some bit of snobbery-ness associated with most organized group(s), IMO.
 
Yes, that is why I dropped out of the ABS. The closest events are a days drive away. When they used to do more hammer-ins I went to them often. Just to advance in the ranks with testing it requires several long trips and a very expensive weekend in Atlanta. I bet of it was all added up it costs a good $1000 to $2000 to get your JS or MS, not to mention a good bit of time away from home and work.
 
I doubt $2k would do it, but today that’s just a half-vacation, if that.
And I’m not anti-ABS, but it is the only one I have some first hand experience with and in some ways it shines, and in other ways it is (or was) broken and that’s MY perception, just as yours is your perception. The difference is in what we want out of our (individual) association(s) with it, or want it to stand for.
 
I think it could benefit people to have a stronger Guild. With Forged in Fire and the ABS the perception that custom knives are forged knives is stronger than ever. Not sure how that's going to happen though.
 
Pattern welded damascus saved the ABS, the guild self destructed when automation came along and there was a bunch of internal fighting.

Forged in fire has benefited both but probably the ABS more.

The ABS discourages forging of high alloy and stainless steels.

Hoss
 
Strong organizations benefit everybody.

A I agree with Stacy, paying what I pay for guild dues has always felt like a lot. But that’s the price to be in the club of Moran, Loveless, Warenski, etc.
 
when i was 13 i dreamed of one day joining the knifemakers guild. now that im wicked old (lol) i would like to but, is it even still a thing? Last i checked you had to attend a show or two, and thats a deal breaker for me....I imagine it would be for anyone with a full time job and a family who wanted to go to a beach for the yearly vacation.
 
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timos- said:
when i was 13 i dreamed of one day joining the knifemakers guild. now that im wicked old (lol) i still would like to but, is it even still a thing? Last i checked you had to attend a show or two, and thats a deal breaker for me....I imagine it would be for anyone with a full time job and a family who wanted to go to a beach for the yearly vacation.
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Same here, back in the 70's and 80's the guild was everything.

Now it just is not the same and having to shut down my office and spend $$$ to go to shows is just not going to happen.

And considering some of the makers they have allowed in recently Loveless must be spinning in his grave.
 
Guild requires that you attend one show at least every four years once you are a member. It does take two shows in three years to get your membership, however. ICCE is the current show that meets their criteria.
 
I joined the Guild in 2008, and for me moving from Italy it was not easy both in terms of money spent and time. I was and am honored to be part of the Guild founded by knifemakers like Moran and Loveless. At the exhibitions of the Guild since it was done in Orlando, then Luisville, Kansas City I have met excellent knifemakers, humble, nice people who are capable and have pleasure in teaching. Over the course of these 12 years the Guild has changed as has the world of knives, I didn't understand where we are going but I'm sure where we started from: the hand made knife, ... the knife made with tools moved by our hands and controlled from our 5 senses. Over the years since I became a voting member, I have presented at least 4 other Italian knifemakers to the Guild, three of whom have become voting members. Unfortunately for me who live in Italy, the distance from friends I met at the shows does not allow me moments / days of exchange of knowledge except via email, I believe that the Guild is just that, trying to create a network of knifemakers scattered around the world that they support each other and meet to share experiences and knowledge in order to improve the world of the knife.
 
Agree with Jason and Dans comments. I have been in what I consider (My knife world) for 40 years and a member of the the Knifemakers Guild since 1982. Early on, late 70s and early 80s, I would go to a show and know every maker in the room either personally or at least by name. Had the pleasure of meeting and talking to all of the great makers of the past and some who are still with us. Now there is a knife maker on every corner and some really great ones at that!!! Things have changed through the internet and social media and turned (my knife world) upside down. I am stock removal only and have fully supported the Guild through all these years, and will continue to do so.. The ABS has done great things with there programs, and deserve support also.
 
wcbill said:
Agree with Jason and Dans comments. I have been in what I consider (My knife world) for 40 years and a member of the the Knifemakers Guild since 1982. Early on, late 70s and early 80s, I would go to a show and know every maker in the room either personally or at least by name. Had the pleasure of meeting and talking to all of the great makers of the past and some who are still with us. Now there is a knife maker on every corner and some really great ones at that!!! Things have changed through the internet and social media and turned (my knife world) upside down. I am stock removal only and have fully supported the Guild through all these years, and will continue to do so.. The ABS has done great things with there programs, and deserve support also.
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Old school.

Hoss
 
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