Abusing an AK

LongRifle

LongRifle

Joined
Apr 5, 2000
Messages
2,018
I went home this weekend and got to see my AK. There was a little work to do outside so I set to it. As always it chopped excelently. When splitting some logs I chipped the knife at the tip somehow. It is an odd chip not just in the edge of the blade, yet it goes up the blade for about two milimeters, yet only on one side. When I saw that I thought nothing of it and knew I could steel it out. Which I did a pretty good job at. The chip is still noticeable, but it isn't too bad. Now it looks like someone took a knife and removed a small slice of the blade. I went on to do a little more chopping and hit something *hard* I put a crack in the handle and took out a real nice chip. I again thought I could steel it out, and I did. The chip is down to about a milimeter deep and two milimeters long. I have no idea what I hit, I am assuming a ston, but there were a series of small chips along the sweet spot. I steeled those out and with a little grinding will go unnoticed. The blade has a very high pitch when I steel it and I am wondering how hard it could be. The other knives I had were about 60 Rc and they didn't make quite as high a pitch as my AK does. The crack in the handle is next to the bolster and only about 3/4 of an inch long. I am still surprised to see how well the AK held up. When I swing I swing pretty hard, and I am amazed the handle hasn't *really* cracked, I have even chopped some harder logs with only a few small stress cracks. I got a King Kobra to crack down both sides of the handle-now that was a crack. Over the past eight months or so I have put a few other cracks in the handle but nothing more than little hairline things. I am not sure if I want to send the knife to Terry and have him put a really nice handle on it and then retire it or tear it up some more. Sher still makes AK's doesn't he?
Matthew
AK's are the greatest knives around!
 
Nice honest report, Matthew. I guess I have a strange sense of humor because for some reason that report made me chuckle.

Every time we use a knife unless it is to slice some butter we damage it in some way, maybe too small to notice but we have changed the blade for the worse. Otherwise we wouldn't have to sharpen the knife. You did some very hard work and encountered some object you didn't know was there and damaged the blade. The fact that you could bring the blade back is the good news and that's what I like to see. Even the sirupati I tried to destroy was brought back to life (with some skill and effort, I might add!)and is in service today.

The highest HI khukuri Rc I've heard of based on actual test is 61 and this is more than we want. The 58 to 60 range is where we like to be and that is where most are.

Tear the knife up some more before you have Terry rehandle it!

Sher, and all others in the shop, make AKs. Sher just happens to make the biggest and meanest.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (18,000+ posts)
 
This was the knife that tried to skin my index finger. That is one reason I don't want to send it to Terry just yet. I am too affraid he would polish it and remove the coating of blood that has coagulated on the blade, especially in the shallow fulers. After I cut my finger I set the knife down with all my blood on it the blood which pooled. Where it pooled it is black, where the blood was less deep it just turned red. How many people have an AK that's mirror on one side and red and black on the other. Even after working with the knife a good deal of the blood is still there. I am sad to say that some of it is begining to flake off, and I suppose when it does I will have Terry give it the works-and then retire it. When everyone talks about their knives having a spirit I know what you mean. All the knives I have handled-even other HI ones-come nowhere near as close to the amount of spirit in that blade. In all honesty everytime I use the knife I bleed on it. One time my index finger nail dug way into my thumb, and then your various abrasions from sticks and whatever else has an objection to me chopping it. Maybe it likes my blood?
Matthew
 
Matthew, I thought I was the only one who left his blood on his khuks! I have one khuk that's had a little dried blood on it (in the grooves of the engraving) for almost a year. Do you think we need professional help?
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Steven F (edited 10-12-2000).]
 
:
If'en y'all like yer blades rust free, en purdy en shinny y'all should clean tha blood of'en 'em.
biggrin.gif


Blood can be mighty corrosive on this kind of steel guys. The highly polished areas will probably take longer to etch, but etch they will if given enough time.
And that can lead to pitting which I doubt y'all want.

If'en y'all wunt thet purdy ol style patina finish, y'all might wanna try the ol mayonaise trick to instant (almost) patina.

Jest so'ens y'all will know.
biggrin.gif


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."

........unknown, to me anyway........

Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Website
 
Hi All,
And now a word from the R&D and Repair Department: I was going to start a seperate thread, but I'm feeling lazy
smile.gif

When any steel is forged carbon moves around some times it works out fine, some times not. There is no way to control this much or predict where it well go (for the most part). But this chipping is a prime example of what can happen. I call to your attention how the edge chipped on one side of the edge. Carbon was concentrated at that point causing it to flake off with a hard enough impact. Had the edge been a little softer, it MIGHT not of happened. This is nobodys fault, that is just one of those things. If that knife is reedged carefully (not to take too much off) everything SHOULD be fine.

Some times the difference between excellence and disaster is a veeeery fine line. Many of those legendary Japanese sword makers turned out a less than stellar blade. These had the makers mark removed and sold to "Joe Trooper". Ther is no way to tell just what you have till you have done all the work!
For example I'm finishing the repair on three blades sent to me by forum members. All three are "Villagers" and none seem to have been made out of the same steel. One in fact has got carbon spots all over and it was a nightmare trying to put a new point on it(carbon doesn't weld, becuse it doesn't melt). It also was developing stress fractures like the AK in question here. I ground the worst out, but then when heattreating the blade I left it softer than it had been hardened to by the Smith. Why? Because, this problem would get worse otherwise, and by leaving the blade a little softer I was able to mitigate the problem.

Some time I'll put up a whole long piece on steel and Knife making for those who would like to know more about the magic of steel. I, by the way do not claim to be an expert!!!!!! I've been studing and working with steel for almost 50 years and I have barely begun to understand the stuff.
Dan
 
This is one of the drawbacks of the villagers. We never know for sure just what kind of steel the knife is made from.

We try our damnedest at BirGorkha to insure that the springs we get are Mercedes-Benz and not Tata but when we get in a partial (torch cut piece) of spring it is very hard to tell for sure. So, we try to avoid this but when supplies get low things can happen.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (18,000+ posts)
 
Dan, thanks for the info. I think I speak for virtually all forumites when I say that we would appreciate learning more from you -- so any knowledge you wish to share will be very well received.
 
Hi All,
Ok, I'll put info out in pieces to avoid overload, resulting in no information gleaned.

Steel isn't a homogenous lump of elements, it's more of a mixture. When steel is smelted and rolled the distribution of the elements are hopefully even throught the matrix. Now there are ways to insure RELITIVE consistancy in the material, but it is not a given! The only steel that even comes close in reality is Particle Metal Technology: each molecule having ALL the properties of the whole. That is the theory anyway, and for the most part it works. CPM440V is an example used in the knife business. However, this kind of steel (because of the way it is created) has some limitations. Everything is a trade off.
I do not believe that Himilayan Imports uses substandard stuff at all.

I have and I'm sure most of you have seen cars and trucks on the road with a leaf broken in the rear springs, there is a noticable sag, but it keeps chugging, because it is supported by the other leaves.
Now, that leaf broke because of a flaw in the steel or maybe in heat treatment, but I'm more inclined to believe the former is the main reason for the failure. That spring might not have fractured before the truck or car stopped functioning and the springs sold. This could just as easily have happened to a Benz spring as a Ford or Toyota, or for that matter, any junky steel spring. It gets to 'em all, it's just that it happens less with the steel that the big outfits buy, LESS often. This leads people to expect ALL those springs to always be OK. But this is not a reasonable expectation.

Could the flaws in some springs be found before the steel is used? Yes, but the cost would be prohibative. If you think $300 toilet seats are pricy, you haven't seen the bills from a testing lab.!!!

Could the Smiths see where the carbon spots were? Probably not. They are not working with a high enough temperature. It's even hard to tell with an Oxy-Act. torch (6000F max, but when doing this welding (high carbon steels can be real tricky) I use a TIG torch at about 12,000F. Makes for some interesting sights. As I said before, carbon doesn't melt, burn yes, but not melt.

So every industry has it's problems with the make up of steel, even low carbon mild steel. I run into problems frequently every week, so when a Smith under primative conditions does his best and the blade has partial failures, well that is to be expected now and again. Tang failures generally, though not always is from faulty heat treat and that they can control. Broken tips are more a result of the blade being too thin for the heattreat used. I'll elaborate more on some of these points later.
Dan


[This message has been edited by Dan K (edited 10-13-2000).]
 
Thank you for taking the time to enlighten us, Dan. It's good to know something about what goes into the making of our khuks.
 
Thanks for the info Dan.

Long Rifle it sounds like the handle on your AK might be a bit small for you.

Will
 
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