Accidentally made a Bug Hawk inspired trainer...

kingcole

kingcole

Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
141
I've been working on some trainers for a class - since I need 15-16 of them, I was trying to figure out a cheap way to make some on my own. I've used TAK trainers in the past and liked them, so I talked to my local plastics guy, and got some advice regarding the most durable materials for trainers. What I ended up to run my prototypes with was a piece of 3/8" clear polycarbonate (lexan), a piece of 3/8" grey PVC, and a piece of 1/2" white aqua board (water board must have sounded bad :)).

Sooooo, while chugging the prototypes out, I accidentally made the CS trainer a Vec Bug Hawk-ish shape (sorry for the intellectual property infringement, Vec! no disrespect intended:)). While I was hogging out the proto with the router, I slipped and hooked a little hook behind the beard. Voila! Bad bug hawk impression. I DEFINITELY need to work from a pattern for the bulk run.
cs.jpg


Anyhoo, these are the other prototypes: the first two (the lexan and the PVC one) I put together in literally about 20 minutes each, so they're FUGLY, but functional.
sog.jpg

vtac.jpg


I roughed out the first one (clear lexan SOG Fusion) with a bandsaw, sanded on a 1" slack belt and tried a few different finishes for the edge (400 grit belt, hand sanding and the scotch brite wheel). The second one (VTAC) I hogged out freehand with a router, then attempted a 45º chamfer on the edges, but had a hell of a time securing the dumb thing to the bench, so it's also FUGLY but functional. I just did a quick shrink wrap handle on it (thank you EDGES2 for the idea!).

The last one (CS Trail hawk) I actually took a little time with (a whole hour! when the hell did I get so busy??) and tried to figure out the process. It's still pretty rough around the edges (looong way from quality like TAK, etc.), but I zeroed in on a relatively quick and repeatable process that yields durable, comfy to use hawks. The CS I hogged out freehand with the router, then cleaned it up on the slack belt, then did a quick pass with a 45º router bit. For the real ones (I have 13ish more to make), I'm going to make patterns out of masonite and use a follower bearing on the router - should make the process QUICK.

I was surprised about a couple of things in the process, though - the lexan seems to be the least impact resistant of the bunch (brittle - the PVC and aquaboard have some more flex in the material it seems), and also the length of cord it took to do a quick/bad handle wrap on the last one: that's damn near 50' of cord! Yikes. I may go back to the shrink wrap, or these could get spendy.

Anyway, just thought I'd share - I about peed my pants laughing when I realized I'd accidentally copied one of Vec's designs, so I figured I'd put these out there.

JC
 
One thing that struck me (and it might not apply in person)-the clear hawk might be alot harder to see, and therefore train with. I would probably stick with the solid colors so that it will be easier to see them and train effectively. Nice job though!
 
thanks for the kind words guys - I'm sort of Forrest Gump-ing my way through these, so the encouragement is appreciated. :thumbup:

Siguy - you're right, the lexan one doesn't track as well to the eye. I was going for the TAK trainer frosted look, so I took the clear lexan and hit it with the scotchbrite wheel to smoke it somewhat. I may go back and see if I can get it more opaque.
 
Hi Kingcole,
John from TAK here. I saw your comment about the Lexan being brittle. I would suggest to test a piece to make sure you didn't get Acrlyic or PETG by accident. They all look the same by eye and flex about the same. Take a hand ax and whack down at about 50% full force with the sharp edge. If it is acrlic (plexiglass) or PETG, it WILL shatter (little chips will come off- brittle). If it is Lexan (polycarbonate), it will not shatter or chip; it will just deform or indent. Polycarbonate is defintley the stiffer of the materials that you are using. You should be able to hit that training hawk against a steel post full force and not have any chips come off. That is how we test our prototypes. Also, make sure there are no right angles on any of your cuts; they can cause stress fractures in extreme cases.
If you have a few extra minutes, you can make your handles feel better by cutting and placing a 1/4" piece of rubber (Goodyear brand from your local hose supply store). Then hit the rubber edge with your 45 degree router before wrapping the cord. The grip will now contour to your hand and the rubber acts as a shock absorber for when you are going all out on the pell. Happy Machining!
John
 
Vec gives it a thumbs up! He is sitting in my den presently recuperating from abalone diving this weekend.
Picture1983-1.jpg
 
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jns said:
Hi Kingcole,
John from TAK here. I saw your comment about the Lexan being brittle. I would suggest to test a piece to make sure you didn't get Acrlyic or PETG by accident. They all look the same by eye and flex about the same. Take a hand ax and whack down at about 50% full force with the sharp edge. If it is acrlic (plexiglass) or PETG, it WILL shatter (little chips will come off- brittle). If it is Lexan (polycarbonate), it will not shatter or chip; it will just deform or indent. Polycarbonate is defintley the stiffer of the materials that you are using. You should be able to hit that training hawk against a steel post full force and not have any chips come off. That is how we test our prototypes. Also, make sure there are no right angles on any of your cuts; they can cause stress fractures in extreme cases.
If you have a few extra minutes, you can make your handles feel better by cutting and placing a 1/4" piece of rubber (Goodyear brand from your local hose supply store). Then hit the rubber edge with your 45 degree router before wrapping the cord. The grip will now contour to your hand and the rubber acts as a shock absorber for when you are going all out on the pell. Happy Machining!
John
Click to expand...

Now THIS is what I love about the internet - thank you SOOO much for the advice, John!! I'll check the material when I get home tonight. The initial test hawk that broke under stress did in fact have a 90º cut in it right where it broke, so I had already started machining curves in all the right places to address that. I'm probably going to go ahead and order a couple of your trainers, John, to get a first hand look at the construction: I've only ever used your Abaniko trainers (I've done some work with Bram), and I don't own any. Time to fix that! hehe. In any case, thank you for the advice - that's going to help a lot.

If I'm reading you right, the lexan (if indeed it IS lexan) should be the superior material, correct? Just checking before I invest in a sheet, since the lexan is significantly more expensive than the other materials I have (PVC and aquatread/board/stuff).

762 and Vec - thanks, guys! Looks like some mean shellfishin' got done!

I'm going to do another materials test, then refine the jigs (going to make three models: CS trail hawk, VTAC and SOG fusion). I should go into full scale production next week some time. Gotta order a bunch of paracord, too! Oof.

JC
 
JC- Yes, the polycarb is the way to go. It does vary in thickness. For example, the 3/8" that you want to use will be +/- 1/16". Take a pair of calipers with you and check your sheet- I prefer the thicker. A full sheet around here retails for about $400. Yes- it is pricey but hey- quality costs time AND money. They will last forever. The PVC may break; the aquaboard is too soft. You may want to copy the paracord wrap on my Vietnam or McLemore hawks; the twists help with retention. Let me know when you get yours finished- I'd like to see some pics.
John / TAKknife.com
 
Ok - finally carved out a little time to check the polycarb I have. I beat the living crap out of a chunk with a hatchet (hitting about 70% of full force with my off hand). The only damage was deformation and deep cuts: no breakage or shattering, so I'm guessing that's the right material. Here's a pic, in case anyone wants to see.

plexitest.jpg


I am going to wait until the McLemore and Vietnam hawk trainers I ordered a few days ago from John/TAKknife.com show up, so I have a little better idea of the finished product I'm shooting for. I'm very curious about the rubber and paracord wrap you're talking about. Just for fun, I checked the thickness of the 3/8" sheet I have: it's actually a little under sized, at .369 inch. Hmmm. I'll definitely try to find some thicker pieces for production.

I have to wait for the paracord to arrive, too - 1200'! Sheesh. I figure I'll have some extra on hand. ;)

John, would you mind sharing just a little more info? Is the finish on your hawks a bead blast finish, or . . .? I tried getting an opaque finish on mine by working them on a scotch-brite wheel, but there's a real risk of deforming the material when done that way, since the polycarb melts so quickly.

Oh - by the way, I was watching Mr. McLemore's hawk video the other day, and laughed pretty hard when I got to the "training weapons" mini-feature, featuring John of TAKknives! Nice to put a face with the name! hehe.
 
Kingcole: Why are you asking me about trainer's on that other thread? Looks like you got a pretty good handle on things, ....Well done. Glad to see you are talking to John, he loves this stuff and has to be the most technically oriented person I have every met. You get together and I bet you'll spend hours talking about this stuff. Regretfully my trainer making skill are shabby at best. Anyway good with this

Best
Dwight
 
Hehe. Well, let's just say I wanted to figure out how that wood CQC-T came into existence, so I could try to make one myself! Anyway, yes - John has been an incredible help through this process. This is a fantastic community - pretty amazing how generous everyone is with knowledge and time.
 
just wanted to drop in personally and say WELL DONE, brother!

press on, and i wish you luck.

vec
 
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