Accurate BB Gun

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rprocter

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I'd like to get an accurate BB gun or air rifle to: 1) teach my daughter proper gun handling and the joy of shooting, and 2) get the squirrels in the walnut trees and the occasional grouse.
so i'm looking for recommendations, perhaps one you own or have used and found it to be accurate, i.e. shoot a tight group.
AGR has this Daisy 499: http://www.russellsformen.com/daisy-competition-match-499b/p/DAI-499-101/
i looked it up at "Daisy" and it shoots only 240fps. anyone know how far out that might be accurate to ? and enough energy to take out a squirrel ?
thanks, roland
 
i don't think it would be accurate i shoot springers beemans and rws,they are costly but fun and cheap to shoot black birds at 50 yards every shot...........
 
rprocter said:
I'd like to get an accurate BB gun or air rifle to: 1) teach my daughter proper gun handling and the joy of shooting, and 2) get the squirrels in the walnut trees and the occasional grouse.
so i'm looking for recommendations, perhaps one you own or have used and found it to be accurate, i.e. shoot a tight group.
AGR has this Daisy 499: http://www.russellsformen.com/daisy-competition-match-499b/p/DAI-499-101/
i looked it up at "Daisy" and it shoots only 240fps. anyone know how far out that might be accurate to ? and enough energy to take out a squirrel ?
Click to expand...

NO! the gun you're looking at is not really powerful enough to take out squirrels.

Squirrels are notoriously tough - and to get clean kills one must have at least about 6-7 foot-pounds energy at the target - accuracy is also paramount for squirrels good head or heart shots are almost essential.

The lowest powered air-rifle that has been recommended is the Beeman R7 with the Rekord trigger - but although it is sweet shooting for a springer - it may not be as suitable for real target shooting/training, and the lowest price I've seen currently is close to $375 - pretty expensive.

For target shooting I've seen the Daisy Target Pro 953 recommended (can be found as low as $70) - although I have also heard its trigger is not that great, but at least it is purpose built as a "target" gun - and is a single pump pneumatic which means there is no recoil on firing. At its spec'd 500 fps or about 5 ft-lb energy - it's still really too low for live game like squirrels.

Most of the cheaper "1,000fps" springers have horrible triggers, and pretty harsh shooting behavior and are totally UNsuitable for training target shooting.

You may be better off buying separate guns for the two purposes.

EDIT to ADD -
a good squirrel gun probably is the Beeman/Weihrauch HW95 in .22 (the Beeman R9 is basically this gun in .177) - although again it has the great Rekord trigger and is pretty good shooting for a springer - it may be too powerful for youngsters - and its lowest price is closer to $472.......

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Thanks guys, that's v. helpful. for years i've been using my old Brno 22. quite accurate. i can usually manage a head shot even when the squirrel is lying flat on the branch. i have a large property but sometimes neighbours can hear the shooting, so i'd rather shoot something closer to 'silent'. also the range of a 22 is too far for comfort. once my neighbour happened to be walking through on a bush trail as i was shooting at a squirrel (that i missed), in my orchard. he mentioned that something "really wierd" flew right past his head. my bullet on it's downward path ! (he was about 400 yards away at that point)
but i don't know much about guns.
is a ".177" one of those gray pellets ? and ".200" same but larger ? like forget BBs and shoot pellets ?
between the 2 would you go springer or air ?
roland
 
I love my RWS Model 48. Just use a heavier pellet. Mine likes crosman domed & hollow points and RWS Superdomes. Try those out if you decide to get it. I liked my Crosman Quest 1000x and that liked gamo pointed pellets, but that's a cheaper gun, still just as good i guess.
 
SuzukiGS750EZ said:
I love my RWS Model 48. Just use a heavier pellet. Mine likes crosman domed & hollow points and RWS Superdomes. Try those out if you decide to get it. I liked my Crosman Quest 1000x and that liked gamo pointed pellets, but that's a cheaper gun, still just as good i guess.
Click to expand...

The RWS/Diana 48 is a great classic - but for a full-sized adult male.
Very hard to see this being suitable for a young daughter -
unless she is 6', 220lbs and does body-building!

The Crosman Quest 1000X again is fine for someone used to springers -
but again I'd hesitate recommending it to beginners as its trigger is not that great and unless one is used to springers may seem very harsh shooting.

rprocter said:
is a ".177" one of those gray pellets ? and ".200" same but larger ? like forget BBs and shoot pellets ?
between the 2 would you go springer or air ?
Click to expand...

airgunpellets.jpg


left to right: flat-head/wadcutters; domed/round-heads; hollow-points; pointed.

Pointed may seem good - but mostly are NOT - and actually are horrible aerodynamically.

To limit range and have good close range impact - use hollow points or flat heads.

Target ammo is .177 flathead/wadcutters.

EDIT to ADD -

.20 is an odd caliber - in between .177 and .22 - some say it's supposed to be the best of both worlds -
but to most it is the worse of - as it is much harder to find and not all ammo is made in .20.

Personally I'd avoid it.

.177 is the most common ammo found in places like WalMart - there is a lot to be said in using commonly available cheap ammo.

But if a lot of shooting of squirrels is intended - the .22 cal would be the better choice. Although less common than .177, it is still a pretty standard airgun calber.


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rprocter said:
neighbours can hear the shooting, so i'd rather shoot something closer to 'silent'.
Click to expand...

If you want quiet, you should go PCP (pre-charged pneumatic), but that may be out of your price range.

You can fill them with scuba tanks IIRC...or special pumps that some companies sell. I know FX sells pumps for their line. Speaking of FX, if you want one of the best...look into FX. They're a Swedish company.
 
I see your in BC... HW 30S .22 would fill the bill without the need for a license. Might have ta sneak up close on them thar critters though.

Excellent grin factor. Tin cans etc.
 
springnr said:
I see your in BC... HW 30S .22 would fill the bill without the need for a license. Might have ta sneak up close on them thar critters though.
Click to expand...

Ah! right, isn't there's a 500fps limit on airguns in Canada?

If that's the case, then the suggested Weihrauch HW30S in .22 is an excellent suggestion.

The oft recommended Beeman R7 is basically the HW30S (in .177).
The HW30S has the Rekord trigger (just make sure the version is the "S" and has the Rekord trigger - one of the very best in airguns).

At a max of 500fps - .22 would have more energy and momentum than any .177 also restricted to 500fps.

With a 500fps restriction - I would use .22 Domed pellets - Crosman Premier or JSB Exact are the best - but even the regular cheaper Crosman Domed are fine.

harkamus said:
If you want quiet, you should go PCP (pre-charged pneumatic), but that may be out of your price range.
Click to expand...

It may be moot - but PCPs are not quiet - at least those with any power - they emit quite a loud crack (almost the same level as .22 short) - springers generally are quite a bit quieter than PCP, any pneumatic (pump) or CO2 at the same power levels.



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I really appreciate all this help. i had no idea there were so many different pellet shapes. the 500fps limit can be legally exceeded if you have a Firearms Acquistion Certificate (FAC) and then register the gun with the National Gun Registry. i have my FAC so i am not limited to 500fps.
i'll read up on the links y'all provided and get back with my decision. one that Isabella can shoot is important too, so advice given on that will be followed.
if you're interested: Johnson's Landing is at the end of the road coming from the north at the N/E end of Kootenay Lake in south-central B.C. (basically north of Spokane)
google earth even shows trampoline by the woodshed. no real privacy anymore !
roland
 
rprocter said:
the 500fps limit can be legally exceeded if you have a Firearms Acquistion Certificate (FAC) and then register the gun with the National Gun Registry. i have my FAC so i am not limited to 500fps.
Click to expand...

The Crosman 2260 Co2 rifle is a sort of a bargain - even though you have to feed it CO2 cartridges - it is .22 and rated at 600fps that makes it about 9-10 ft-lb energy at the muzzle - the low price is about $70.

With CO2 there is no cocking effort and no recoil - it is a bit louder than a springer of equal power - but it is not that loud.

The main drawback as with all cheaper airguns is its trigger it has a kind of mushy feel and there is some creep (the trigger blade is plastic) - one can get used to the trigger - I use the creep as a kind of "first stage".

This could fill the dual purpose of training and squirrel gun -
you have to buy special mounting (cheap) for a scope which does make the gun more accurate to shoot.
I'd recommend Crosman wadcutters for training/plinking and RWS Super H-Points for squirrels.

I really like the Tasco Varmint 2.5-10 x 42 as low as about $60 - it has a focusing/parallax correction objective - and VERY important for airguns it has to be able to focus/parallax correct as close as 10 yards!
Also for springers make sure the scope is rated for springers -
as Springers have a 2-way recoil that can destroy even expensive "magnum" scopes.

With cheaper airguns you may be able to afford the Crosman 2260 for squirrels and the Daisy 953 for your daughter's training and your own plinking with the cheaper .177 ammo (recommend Crosman wadcutter pellets for the Daisy).

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The MARKETING MEN have gotten you nimrods all excited with their hype. It is TERRIBLE SPORTSMANSHIP to shoot at squirrel or rabbit with an air gun. Way too much chance of wounding and suffering. Do not even think about it.

I have hunted small game for 40 years. I use a .22 or 12/20 ga. shotgun. The shotgun will knock a squirrel out of a tree, but I almost always have to finish them with a .22 short to the head. I once hit a squirrel in the chest with a .45 acp 230 grain(the military round). He hung on to the limb, and I had to hit him a second time to knock him down.

And you guys are talking seriously about using a 7 grain pellet!!! Get into the real world, boys. Pellets are for (small) birds and targets. That's all!
 
keithcarter said:
The MARKETING MEN have gotten you nimrods all excited with their hype. It is TERRIBLE SPORTSMANSHIP to shoot at squirrel or rabbit with an air gun. Way too much chance of wounding and suffering. Do not even think about it.

I have hunted small game for 40 years. I use a .22 or 12/20 ga. shotgun. The shotgun will knock a squirrel out of a tree, but I almost always have to finish them with a .22 short to the head. I once hit a squirrel in the chest with a .45 acp 230 grain(the military round). He hung on to the limb, and I had to hit him a second time to knock him down.

And you guys are talking seriously about using a 7 grain pellet!!! Get into the real world, boys. Pellets are for (small) birds and targets. That's all!
Click to expand...

Not so - in the UK which has a long airgun tradition, because of much stricter firearms laws - for most pest control rabbits, squirrels and rats even professionals use airguns - there is even a limit of 12 ft-lb muzzle energy without a FAC. But 12ft-lb is more than adequate for squirrels within 30 yards - further than that although with the right pellets the energy is still sufficient - the distance makes accuracy for good head or heart shots difficult unless you fancy yourself as a really good marksman.

The UK has been using airguns for pest control for centuries.

There are huge advantages for airguns for pest control - because of lesser danger further down range and within farm buildings like barns there is no danger of wall penetration.

No, 8-12ft-lb muzzle energy is more than adequate and humane for killing squirrels.

In fact the world famous Dr Beeman has a Field Use of an Airgun -that shows 3ft-lb energy at the target is adequate for dispatching squirrels - but most airgun forums point out that squirrels are tough and recommend 5-6 ft-lb at the target.

Even the lower powered Beeman R7/HW30S in .177 retains 5-6 ft-lb out to 30 yards with the right pellet - even though that would not be my first choice.

I'd much prefer the Weihrauch HW95 (Beeman R9) in .22 (link to velocity/energy test results) which can retain 7-8ft-lb out to 50 yards - but as I said I would not recommend shooting any live airgun quarry out to 50 yards - personally I'd limit to about 20 yards where the energy levels would be closer to 10-11 ft-lbs (twice what I'd recommend and about 3.5x that of Dr Beeman).

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I've killed plenty of squirrels in the last 25 years with a daisy 880 (the old steel one). I'm told the new ones are plastic chinese garbage, and not accurate at all. The 880 is rated at around 800 fps with ten pumps, and it's a .177 cal. It will kill cleanly as long as you're accurate.
 
"It is TERRIBLE SPORTSMANSHIP to shoot at squirrel or rabbit with an air gun. Way too much chance of wounding and suffering."
i started planting walnut trees over 25 years ago. as the trees matured and the nuts came, so did the squirrels. so i planted more walnut trees thinking, some for the squirrels, some for me. i am a guy who lives with nature rather than feeling he has to try to 'conquer' it.
well, my "share with squirels" plan doesn't work. the more nuts you grow, the more the squirrels proliferate. they start 'de-nutting' the trees in July, about 2 1/2 months before the nuts will ripen. it's just obsessive behaviour on the squirrels' part because those nuts are not developed and will never grow or have any food value for the squirrel. if i don't really try hard to shoot them, i end up with every tree stripped of every nut. they don't even leave 1.
i see the problem not as cruelty to critters, but to my trees, as a 22 bullet embedded in a branch, kills that branch within about 2 years. hence i want to use a pellet, hoping it won't be as harmful to the tree.
it's fun and challenging just trying to find where the little bugger is in a leafed out tree. a good dog is a help because he'll sit right under where the squirell is, looking up. it also showed me the origin of the expression: "barking up the wrong tree".
roland
 
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