Adapt or die?

oupa

oupa

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Well, maybe not die, but miss out.
I get the impression that some of the larger US knife manufacturers are beginning to hurt.

They are being forces to adjust their product line to compete with successful budget lines.
The success of Camillus’ EDC and the CRKT range springs to mind.

At the premium end of the market, the custom offerings have become many and competitively priced.
Thus hacking into the manufacturers top end offerings.
These craftsmen are beginning to master the art of effective marketing and merchandizing.

The Internet has played no small part in this knife-revolution.
Sites like Bladeforum have made the consumer more aware as well as discerning.
Comparisons are made, opinions spread far and wide and “lemons” can no longer be swept under the carpet.
Manufacturers have had to lift their game.
Fit/finish/quality/price is widely discussed.
Costs for QC have thus gone up substantially and corners have to be cut.
All in an attempt to keep costs down.

I expect to see more plastic handled, coated blade offerings.
Of course fancy names for plastic and paint will be evolved!
Campaigns to convince us that these new materials/manufacturing methods are superior will be touted in the marketplace.
IMHO a very busy time awaits the manufacturers’ “moles” on this and other forums.
So be prepared.
The $50 to $100 segment is going to get even more crowded.
 
Good observations. The best part is that the consumer will benefit from the increased competition and product development.
 
Well stated, oupa. It does appear that the knife manufacturing business has become very competitive.

One only has to look at the spectacular failures of some companies that were considered at the forefront of the industry, only to go belly-up (EDI, Speed Tech, etc.).

In most respects, I think we, as the knife-buying public have benefited, but it's a shame to see some good companies with good, innovative products go by the wayside.
 
It seems that when a new company comes in at the higher end, they don't do so well. I guess the higher cost of a yet unproven manufacturer/design keeps them from getting their foot in the door.
When something new comes in at the lower to mid range, more people are willing to try them out sooner. Let's face it, it's easier to risk $50 than it is to risk $200.
Maybe it would be wiser to test the waters with something less expensive first. After success is reached, better materials and designs could be introduced.
Custom makers such as Reeve and Emerson had their reputations made before they went production. They had a customer base waiting for them.
William Henry succeeded because they offerd something a little different. The very classy looks were a big help too.
EDI and Speed-Tech showed a lot of promise. It's a shame they didn't make it. They both had good things to offer.

Paul
 
A very keen observation OUPA. Is it beginning to reflect in the price of a good production knife in Australia?

There are some unknowns and some getting to be well known starting to make a dent in the big guns of the production world. Pro-Tech and Dalton come to mind as starting to compete head to head with Benchmade and Microtech. [Oops!]

2002 is going to be an interesting year for knife buyers. I cannot count past ten when it comes to economics so tell me, where are the big guns going to be in six months, and how about the Great up and coming knife makers?...........wolf:confused:
 
As far as I can see, American knife makers are doing just fine at meeting the challenge put forth by the imports. They should, in my opinion, keep their quality higher and not be ashamed to have higher prices.

I see more high end knives coming from production companies all the time. They do not seem to be having any trouble selling all they can make. Buck is going to have a $5000.00 limited to 100, knife coming in the near future. Spyderco, Buck and Benchmade seem to be doing fine. In the lower end of the price scale American knife manufacturers may lose some market share, but I think they will strengthen in the middle and upper ranges. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Good viewpoint on this Oupadirk. There's much truth in what you've said. I know that many of the older companies have had layoffs - BM has not. It's hard to keep high quality if you can't keep your skilled workers.
 
My worry is that we are being told how "neat" all the coated blades and "space age" handles are.
These opinion are then pushed by factory-friendly "moles" on forums like this.
In the most cases, these "opinions" are heavily biased.
In a few cases, uncoated blades are no longer even given as an option.
 
Fit/finish/quality/price is widely discussed.
Click to expand...

Widely discussed? - I am not so sure. I was just checking the home page and Blade Forums currently has 188 members signed in, worldwide. Is that enought to make an entire industry stand up and take notice?

A little over a year ago when I first became interested in knives, I thought ATS-34 was something Orkin sprayed on termites. I would expect the vast majority of knife buyers still do. They will go buy whatever the guy behind the counter at Walmart recommends, or, if they are more affluent or in the military, they might be convinced to buy a Randall or other custom at a high-end gun shop.
 
Oops - sorry oupa, I forgot this is an international discussion. Orkin is a large American pest(insect) control company, and Walmart is the largest US discount department store chain.
 
I have found myself buying knives out of curiousity more than want. How many times have you bought something that (through marketing tactics) you really believed you just had to have. Whether it be a ticket to a movie or a knife. I have found myself in possesion of several new knives that more or less resemble a chunk of rubber out of a retread tire. I
 
When I first began buying knives, I was trying to get a variety of different sizes and styles. I had no idea which brands, steels, etc. were good. My initial strategy was to buy military issue knives, believing these must be of at least adequate quality since they were adopted by the military.

I still like one of those military knives very much - the Camillus Pilot Survival Knife. It's sort of the Swiss Army of fixed blade knives - you can even hammer with it.

I still stick mainly to factory knives, due to budgetary constraints. I just can't afford those $500 customs. Although I will eventually make one exception, and get a Randall.
 
Oh boy W.T., now you went and stepped in it. Randall knives are not considered to be custom knives. Handmade yes, custom no. This has been hashed out over and over again so I won't get into it here.
 
Okay, Here’s my take on the knife economy. We’ve got a ton of knife manufacturers, and another ton of custom makers. And with all of these knife models being produced, knives are quickly becoming regarded as a bad thing in the world. The general public’s perception of a knife is of something used to kill people. I firmly believe that the full repercussions of the events of September 11th have yet to be fully seen in the knife industry. I’m betting that the knife manufacturers have felt the crunch, but we collector’s may not know the actual truth of the situation.

Basically, something has to break free here. Either the number of knife manufacturers is going to be culled out in a BIG WAY by financial constraints, or something will happen to bring the knife back into the good graces of the media. Hopefully, the second possibility will happen. Just imagine if Tom Hanks had his SAK on that desert island. Knives would have suddenly been regarded as a necessity by millions. The ice skates made for a more interesting movie, but the knife industry could have used the positive publicity.

I also blame the knife industry itself. The average Joe hasn’t got a clue that a good knife is superior to the pile of Pakistan specials in the stores. Most people believe that stainless steel is a specific kind of steel from which all good knives are made. They just don’t know that different kinds of stainless exist, of which some are better than others. It’s the knife industry’s responsibility to inform the public of this stuff. Information could be made available at retail stores in an attempt to inform the customer. If you can’t prove that your knife is better than the Pakistan POS, you deserve to lose the sale.

All in all, the knife is going to have a hard time rebounding. The general opinions of the public are not good, and nobody seems to be doing anything significant to change these attitudes. The way things are headed, the public will demand that the government make matters worse. People are scared right now, and fear always brings about bad decisions.

As I see it, here’s the course of events that need to happen

1. The public will have to be shown that the knife is a useful tool, and not merely a weapon. This will require the media in two ways. Knives will have to be represented as tools. Knives will also have to stop being represented as weapons in action and suspense movies. No more of this assassin and Rambo crap. I’ll also include the Internet as a form of media, where manufacturers will have to stop giving knives these tactical defensive names and looks. The public needs to associate the knife with other tools, just like screwdrivers and scissors.

2. The public will have to be given knowledge about what makes one knife better than another. If this doesn’t happen, only cheap POS rip-offs will benefit from #1. The dumbass Wal-Mart employees are the big key. They obviously aren’t going to know the facts, so we have to replace these less than knowledgeable salesman with literature of some sort. We’re beyond the good old days where you had the old guy working at the small sporting goods store, who knew about his product. We now have to live with minimum wage employees selling our tools, who are not expected by their manager to know anything about their products. We need to replace the old guy with a convenient form of teaching.

Well, that’s how I see it. I hope I’m wrong.
 
The general public’s perception of a knife is of something used to kill people
Click to expand...

Hello Buzzbait,

I was kind of suprised to read that statement. Admittedly I don't often watch news programs or read newspapers, but I was not aware that "knife control" had become a prominent public issue. Of course, I am sure people like Charles Schumer and Ted Kennedy include knives on their list of weapons to ban. Still, I can't say I have ever noticed knives getting much attention among the general public, especially in comparison to firearms.
 
I see the public's perception of the knife as being much more subtle than the gun. You don’t hear people complaining about knife control outside of airport terminals nowadays. But… Open up your 3 ½” folder to cut a box in the Northeast, and everybody in the room hits the deck or sticks up their hands waiting to be robbed. People are generally very frightened of knives. They’ve seen too many movies, which often don’t bother to show a knife unless somebody is getting killed. Hollywood has done an excellent job at glamorizing the knife as being a close combat weapon, which people identify whether the intended style of knife is meant for this purpose or not. I can’t tell you how many gasps I’ve heard after carrying a large Sebenza for six months.

And I have to admit to having this fear at one time. My first real knife purchase was for a small CRKT M-16 and a Spyderco Military. I liked the small M-16, but I was actually afraid of using the Military for a long time. I’d never actually seen a knife that big in person before. A Military is nothing compared to the size of many fixed blades, but looks like a sword to people who have never seen anything bigger than a slipjoint.
 
W.T.,buzzbait I go along with your thoughts.However I'd like to add I make it a point to pull out and use my knives in front of as many people as possible.I carry for the most part a LCC or CQC7.I'm a good guy and I like to show people that good guys carry big knives too.

I hardly ever get so much as a dirty look.for example last Friday at my daughters basketball practice one of the girls needed a loose piece of rubber cut off a sneaker.She went to one of the other coaches who reached for a small folder,before he had it out I snapped open my "7" bent down and cut it.The reaction?the other 2 coaches thought it was a great knife.I said well I hope these girls don't go home and tell mom and dad that coach Larry pulled out a big knife at practice,one girl then said"my dad has about 80 knives"another added "my dad has a bunch he uses for hunting".This is how I try to counter the negitive knife use,show people how handy they are.

A couple of years ago I went into school to help the kids carve their pumpkins,used my AFCK,no problem.:)

Each October I go to the schools to talk to the kids about fire safety.I always show the kids my Spyderco Rescue thats in my bunker coat and whatever folder is clipped to my pants.My point?Don't hide your knives that way people only know of knives as tools of bad guys.
 
Hello Again, Buzzbait,

Well, you live in New York and I know the attitude toward weapons among the "sheeple" up there is different from that here in Georgia.
I can't say that I have ever noticed any sensitivity toward knives around here.
 
It's all a matter of where you go in New York. People turn into sheeple the closer you get to the big city. The Adirondack Mountains are a different matter entirely. They look at you funny if you don't have a knife.
 
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