advice needed (big blade vs. axe)

neetones

neetones

Joined
Apr 30, 2001
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Hi everyone. I've started getting really into backpacking/camping and primarily because of this forum, i've gained an acute interest in all things with beveled edges that cut. In addition, I'm interested in "wilderness survival" or more accurately, living in a mode that more closely resembles the vast majority of the history of our species. Well, that being said, i'm looking for a new blade.
I have a Fallkniven F1 on the way, so that should cover my needs as far as a small fixed blade goes. I also have a Victorinox Rucksack that I plan on taking with me wherever I end up going. So that covers the small end of the blade spectrum (I think). I'm now looking at something larger, something that would allow me to put together a "primitive" shelter/cut firewood if there's no brittle dead wood around, etc...
My basic question is what would serve my purposes better here, a small-medium sized axe or a huge knife? In the axe department I think my options have been narrowed down to the Gransfors Bruks line, the Wildlife Hatchet and the Small Forest Axe. Also, perhaps the new mini-belt hatchet although it seems a bit small. In the huge knife lineup, I think my primary choice right now would be a Becker Brute...judging from all the reviews I've read it would be ideal unless I were willing to step up in price to a Busse, which i'm not. I suppose something like a Fallkiven A1 would be too small...but i'm not positive about that. Or hell, maybe I should just get a $12 pocket chainsaw and forget the...nah, axes and knives are just so much more fun.
Well, please give me any feedback you can, it will all be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Nitin
 
That's an easy one, IMHO. Do the axe. When it comes to chopping wood, an axe is much more efficient and versatile than a knife. You can split wood for burning with an axe. Just try that with a knife.
 
Get a full length handle on that ax, and at least
a two pound head, so you can really chop wood.
If weight is a problem, as with serious backpacking,
switch to a folding saw, as big and as tough as you
can stand. Trying to go up against real big hard wood
with little tomahawks, belt hatchets, gimmick saws,
will be frustrating.

Of course, a chain saw, splitter, maul, wood chipper and
a lumber truck would be handy too.
 
Looking at big blades you should also consider the Newt Livesay RTAK. It falls somewhere in between the Brute and Battle Mistress in price. The handle is extremely comfortable. But like the other guy said, an ax probably does the job better. The Fallkniven A1 doesn't have the mass to make it an excellent chopper. It has the strength though. If assisted by hammering on the spine, it can chop.
 
The optimum tool depends on what you are going to cut. For solid forest timber an axe is best. It also has the advantage of a flat on the back of the head that can be used as a hammer. If you are out in grassy or brushy areas a light and thin machete may be best. In between areas with a mixture of brush and heavier wood might call for a heavier machete or a kukhuri.

In the forests of Colorado I would be happy with a modest hatchet. Most of the time I would just use dead wood from the ground. I would use the hatchet to split some kindling and pound some tent stakes.
 
A few years ago, I was given a pair of Felco sacateurs for my B-day. In those days, was quite an avid rose grower. I was delighted. I especially wanted to compare them to the generic bypass pruners I had used for a few years.

Well, I think some might make a case for the Felco sacateurs as being the Sebenzas of the sacateurs world. They're pricey, but really great. A year or so later, I needed a pruning saw. So, I ordered a Felco folding pruning saw. It has an orange plastic handle, that doesn't feel terribly strong, and a corny little wire U-shaped deal for hooking onto the blade and keeping it in the handle. Frankly, I was pretty disappointed upon receiving the saw.

But, fairly quickly, I had the need to use the saw. I gotta tell you that those Felco folks in Switzerland know about cutting stuff. That saw zips through 3-4" saplings like you wouldn't believe.

For efficiency and weight reasons, am putting a pair of folding saws in the two emergency packs I'm slowly putting together for the cars. Found a saw that seems better put together than teh Felco, but costs a bit more and weighs twice as much. And, the Felco has the orange handle, very helpful for forgetful folks like myself.

I think that if I had a decent-sized knife with me on a trek into the wilderness, that I'd prefer to have the little folding saw, rather than a hatchet or even a Swede saw. I haven't looked at them, but believe it is Gerber who makes such a saw that the blade retracts into the handle, rather than folding. Want to check that out.
 
Since it's unlikely that you'll want to lug a full-size axe when backpacking, I see the choice as that of either a hatchet or large knife. As much as I like tomahawks, I am not much of a hatchet fan. If you are considering a large knife, take a look at some of the quality khukuris from HI. There are several in the approximate price range of the Brute that should meet your needs quite well.

Originally posted by Buzzbait
...You can split wood for burning with an axe. Just try that with a knife.
Click to expand...

OK, here's my 18" AK. :D
 

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I suppose my question is, why would one or the other be necessary?
If you are backpacking, you are carrying your house ,bedding, food, medical supplies on your back. The most a large blade or axe can do is make the load heavier. If its a question of being seperated from your gear, and have to build shelter, you are probably going to be seperated from the axe,or knife too, as they would most likly be strapped to your backpack for carrying comfort.
In cooler weather, when there may be the issue of a fire for warmth,
a light saw would provide wood quicker IMHO.

Ravenn in Ky
 
Backpacking is all about planning. After your first hike you will start kicking yourself for every extra ounce of unused stuff.

If I had the need I would rather take a large knife than a hatchet. The hatchets are pretty much useless in the sticks. You will be surprised how ineffective they are. If you are really going to work wood (like chopping dead fall into firewood) then you want at least a 3/4 size axe.

John Greco, Busse, HI kukries, Becker Knife & Tool (Camillus) and other big knives would be fine. Just make sure everyone doesn't show up with an ax and no can opener. :)

N2S
 
Actually I think a saw would be better than either the ax or the big-blade. But since you narrowed your choices to those items, I would choose the ax.

Think about this: during ancient times, before guns, alot of people carried swords for protection. Even though they had plenty of swords and long dirks available they still chose the ax when it came to wood-work. They probably tried using their swords and discovered that they were'nt as good as the ax for felling trees and splitting logs.

I suppose a machete would be best for jungle growth?

IMHO, the hatchet (or hand-ax) would be your worse choice. The shorter handle does'nt give you as much swing as a full-size ax, and so you generate less force (this equals more work for your muscles--think of hitting a baseball with a 12" bat).

Good luck,
Allen.
 
These questions about "what will you do with it", "why do you need a big knife anyway", "will you have it on you?" are very relevant, IMO. If you're talking about light chopping, bushwhacking, camp clearing, you should really be looking at something that looks more like a machete. Heavier chopping favors a big camp knife or hatchet. In all of these cases, the question of "why are you doing this?" becomes critical? If it's preparation for a survival situation, then whatever you choose better be convenient to carry directly on your person, rather than in your pack -- for me, that rules out axes, big hatchets, and kukris right off the bat. If it's planned bushwhacking, firewood gathering, and camp clearing, after I subtley ask you to consider low-impact camping :), I might look at something bigger.

For something like $150, you could get solid representatives of at least a few of these types of knives, and see what works for you. An Ontario 12" or 18" machete, a good campers' 8" folding saw, and a big camp knife type like the patrol machete from camillus should run you less than that.
 
For chopping, an axe is hard to beat. The smaller models in te Gransors Bruks line are all quite capable. A hatchet or hawk are also capable of utility cutting. In a "survival" situation I would prefer the hatchet to ANY large knife.

Paul
 
I agree with Joe, it depends. When I camp with friends out of my truck, I have both an axe and a "bow" saw (I think that's the right term). They are both useful in different situations.

When I backpack, I carry a CS Recon Scout. Not optimal for chopping, but certainly capable of it, as indicated in another thread right now. It's nice having a knife that I'm not strong enough to break, and is easy to sharpen to boot!

Enough people have talked about these "pocket" saws, that I would like to try one.
 
Thanks everyone, for the responses and the help. I guess I should clarify what i'm trying to convey.

As it is right now, when I go backpacking or camping I carry only a small fixed blade and an SAK. That's enough for pretty much everything. Collecting firewood by chopping or sawing is a waste of energy when there's plenty of brittle deadfall just waiting to be snapped across a rock or twisted in half between two trees. This lightweight setup is good enough for me, for what I do right now. And Joe, I do believe heavily in low impact camping/outdoorsmanship. Leave it as if you'd never been there.
What I meant by "survival" is not emergency-type survival. It is the sort of planned trip that one takes to live differently, to be removed from airconditioning and traffic and cubicles and keyboards. I am slowly gaining knowledge and practice in the area and am also looking for some appropriate tools to do the various jobs that would be required.
I am just trying to get an idea as to what you all recommend because obviously this forum is packed with incredibly knowledgable and helpful people...and i'll get any chance to take advantage of that.

good day. :)

Nitin
 
Don't forget the "I enjoy it" factor too. If you are a bowie kind of guy, get a large bowie. It may not chop as well as other tools, but it definitely will do the deed and you'll enjoy carrying it and using it.

If you are a SAK and small fixed blade guy, will you be comfortable with a large fixed blade for chopping? You may find it incongruent with your current likes/thinkings/gear setup. perhaps a small axe or hawk is what you need.
 
Yeah, I think you've got the idea Crayola. It may not be "optimal" but if you like it, get it...after all I don't use my CS Recon Tanto every day, or even every month...but I like having it.

Nitin
 
If you're looking for "fun factor" I recommend a Bowie. It just feels right for the American outdoors.
 
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