Advice Needed Re Water Purification

Q

qubehead

Joined
Dec 30, 2004
Messages
47
Howdy All!
I'm in the early prep stages for a hike on the Appalachian Trail next spring. I've just been checking out water filters, reading reviews &c. Cranky, messy, heavy, expensive things they look like. I'm tempted to skip the filter and just use bleach, 4 drops per liter of water. Liquid bleach of course weighs substantially too, being itself mostly water. Why pack excess water? So, I'm considering just getting one of those toilet tablet things (non-colored); a glance at the ingredient list of one store-brand tablet shows it to be 98% (!!) of various chlorides. One could take a tablet and scrape a tiny amount for purifying purposes as needed. Am I completely off the reservation here? Any problems, hazards, &c I'm overlooking? I would be grateful for any advice or perspective y'all could provide.
 
No experience with the toilet tablets but I have used the water purification tablets which work pretty good. I favor a Katadyn Hiker or Combi filter. Its lightweight and you can be sure you're drinking good water.

Ice
 
I have the previously mentioned Hiker Filter. Does weigh about a pound but well worth carrying. So far as I know no chemical treatment will kill Giardia.
 
There are purification tabs that undoubtedly will taste better in the water than the urinal disk.



munk
 
What do you all think of ground stablized tri-chlor? Basically, its the solid form of sodium hypochlor (bleach) with calcium for filler and cynuric acid to keep it stable under UV conditions. Basically, I'm talking about a puck of pool chlorine. Also, what % of chlorine is best in bleach for drinking water? I think most store bought stuff is about 10.5%, but i can get my hands on 12.5% (actually, i have 98 bottle of the stuff right here).
I'm a pool guy by trade, so i can get my hands on all kinds of chlorine based chemicals.

Jake
 
Chlorine or iodine, in sufficent strength, will kill giardia. Use according to directions because water temperature and the level of organics in the water affect disinfection.

Chlorine tablets for water disinfection are commercially available.

The hotter the water, the faster Chlorine leaves solution = nice "clean" smell but little disinfection. Best application is clear, cold water.

I carry a sponge to pre-filter stream water to remove as many solids as possible.

There is one little bugger that chlorine (and iodine?) will not kill. Can't recall the name, but there was a big outbreak in Milwaukee a few years ago.

The good filters get everything bug-wise. My pet peeve is that they are slow.

Citric acid crystals neutralize iodine and it's taste. Lemonade anyone?
 
Why screw around with such chemicals? It's not made to be used this way. I've handled the 3" tabs, and I sure wouldn't want that crap in my water bottle.

Go with one of the two following:

MSR Miniworks EX filter

or

Chlorine Dioxide Drops by Aquamira.

The filter works very well, is reliable, and quite light and easy to clean. But it might be too heavy, big, or expensive for some.

The Chlorine Dioxide drops are a set of two droppers. You mix a number of each sort of drop and let it react for a while, then you put it in your water, and it kills it all within about 15-20 minutes. Quite easy to use. It definately kills Giardia, but it also kills the more elusive Cryptosporidium, a meaner and much hardier bug. I think it's the only available chemical treatment that kills the Crypto. Crypto's an increasingly prolific bug that isn't killed by iodine. It also gets you a little sicker than Giardia can.

Both the filter and the Aquamira are effective against Giardia and Crypto. I have personally used both, and they both definately work. If you don't like the chemical taste, the filter would be better. It'll also help with filtering out the sediment and other bad stuff that can get in the bottle. But if you want to go light and cheap, the Aquamira will keep you healthy. Also, they're both specifically designed to be used by hikers to purify potable water. Not keep toilets and pools clean.

Hope that helps. If you have any questions, let me know.

Nam


PS: I think Linton was referring to the Cryptosporidium. Nasty stuff, no doubt.

But if you're comparing speeds of filters and drops, I've found the following: While filters may be more effort and seem slow, they'll actually probably quicker. You can pump a liter pretty quickly, but the chems have to sit for a while. It's a question of elbow grease.
 
"Quicker" was the wrong word. "Easier" is it, I quess. While the chemicals are working, I can be setting up camp.

Yas, Crypto is what I was thinking off. There were fatalities in Milwaukee. I have received several warnings that normal bottled bleach is not recommended for Crypto and that Iodine is useless.
 
Use the Katy filters mentined above. Ceramic filtration is worth their price. Good to keep around for survival purposes too. I filter then boil, cause I'm paranoid and doing that makes me feel better.

If no filter available, the use the purification tablets, then boil.

cliff
 
I bought a Katydyn filter about 8 or 9 years ago, the metal military one they advertised with the ceramic filter. It is a beautiful unit. I went to buy a backup ceramic filter for it in 1999, but that was just as much as the combi filter, so bought one of those instead. It has the ceramic and the charcoal secondary filter. They're not interchangeable I don't think, but if I have to spend that much for the filter sleeve I might as well get a second complete filter was my thought. Barring breakage I have ceramics for over 25,000 gallons of water, and secondary charcoal ones for the combi for about 500. They are both nice units, and very portable.

I have a couple of two quart canteens and also carry water purification tabs in those which are good in a pinch.

I have seen the new camelback systems that have some type of built in water pur device. You just float the thing and fill it with water and drink and the water is automatically filtered.

I think it's Cheaper Than Dirt or Brigade Quartermasters also sells these little filters that you insert into the mouth of your 1 or 2 quart plastic military canteen, and it will automatically filter the water as you fill it in a stream or pond. If I wanted to go fast and light that is probably what I would opt for.

Norm
 
You can pre-filter by tying an ordinary coffee filter over your water filter intake. Works good.

Ice
 
Chlorine, potassium permangante etc will kill bacteria, viri, spores etc with varying levels of success ( quite high in most cases ). However you might want a filter to remove some toxins etc as well ( unless the water is rather unclean I doubt there would be large doses of toxins ) but many organic compounds you can remove by shaking your water with carbon powder and then removing the carbon powder with a regular filter like the disposable ones you use in chemistry labs a coffee filter would probably work as well.

Boiling will kill most of the stuff you'd use chemicals for as well.
By all means get some tablets for instance chlorine tablets that tell you the proper dosage to use. All the compounds we talk about here are toxic to some degree, it makes no sense to use something that might give you a overly large dose of chlorine or a too small dose to kill the germs.
Some links
http://www.travelhealthzone.com/away/water/5-purification.php
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/seta/2003/04/24/stories/2003042400180300.htm
 
You know its not whats on the list of ingredients that gives me pause . It may be manufacturer standards or the packaging its in . Pool or toilet chlorine tablets just give me the willies . You are using something for human consumption that I can guarrantee you the manufacturer wouldn,t reccomend . If four drops of household bleach treat a litre then 1000 drops
treat 250 litres . 1000 drops wouldn,t weigh very much not even if you doubled it . I imagine if you are going to be out longer than it would take to consume 125 gallons of water then the idea may merit further inquiry .
 
Best - Boil water, then let cool and drink. A sierra stove or a hobo stove weighs little, and often you will be able to find fuel on the trail to boil water.

OK - Get some Polar Pure. I think REI carries it. My bottle is several years old. A little bottle with the crystaline iodine will last your whole trip. It doesn't take much weight. I would also take along some vitamin c and use it to reduce the iodine after it has set in the water long enough to disinfect. I've found that just drinking the treated water made me sick after about a week. I suspect it kills good bugs inside too. That's a reason for neutralising the iodine prior to drinking, especially if you're planning on using it for an extended period. You can make your own setup with crystaline iodine and a bottle, but iodine is used in some durg manufacture, and you might have the feds looking over your shoulder. Also, the Polar Pure has instructions, and a filter on the bottle to keep the crystals in. It's pretty cheap too.

Worst - Items not intended for human consumption.
 
I suspect it kills good bugs inside too. That's a reason for neutralising the iodine prior to drinking, especially if you're planning on using it for an extended period.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.

Don't put toilet tabs in your drinking water!! No, I don't know anything about them, but it sounds like something I might read about in the Darwin awards--no offense, but that sounds really dangerous.
 
As Howard said, be careful with Iodine. I'm not sure about the drug use, but in certain mixtures, it also makes a crystal that's more unstabe and almost as explosive as TNT. :eek: (chemistry was fun). Although I doubt anyone would be bringing along the other ingredient, but you never know what will show up in the woods these days. Personally I'd get some of the water purification tablets, some coffee filters, and a good canister filter like those mentioned earlier in this post.


mike
 
Explosive compounds of iodine is from mixing it with ammonia, very reactive so not a good at home experiment ( no firey, it goes boom or is toxic experiment is a good at home experiment ) and non chemist tend to vastly overestimate how much can be safely made "just for fun" without the unfun part being having surgery to try to sew your hand back to your arm and having new eyes made of porclain...
They made some in the lab where I work and set it of with a feather on a stick.
I forgot to mention but if you get anything like potassium permanganate don't mix it with anything that would burn ( like carbon compounds metalpowders etc ) it's a strong oxidizing agent.
 
Many thanks guys!
The kills-good-bugs angle hadn't occured to me, and definitely gives one pause. Of course, I could always boil the water to kill the chlorine... which uses fuel, which takes time and costs money and takes up weight :rolleyes: Better just go ahead and get the filter after all, I reckon.
 
Yeah, it's pretty darn unstable. But like I said, I doubt that you would have the other chemical (amonia), with you. And it's unlikely that one would come across enough in a natural environment to worry about it.

mike
 
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