Advice on a japanese style kitchen knife

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francoisdm

Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Messages
16
Hi all,

While not posting often (english is not my mother tongue) I read regularly this forum and I find it very instructive. I would like to buy a very good all purpose kitchen knife, and I'm torn between two options:

1) a real japanese deba like this one:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KSSeriesHonKasumiGyokuhakukou.html

2) a Murray Carter kitchen knife like this one:
http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/products/?id=6209

Which one do you think will have the best fit and finish, and the best blade ? Are these knives very hard to sharpen ?

Thanks for your input,

Francois.
 
I've heard nothing but good things about Murray Carter's knives, but they are on the pricey side. White steel, being a high carbon steel, rather than stainless, will rust up if improperly treated. Great stuff though.

Considering that #2 is currently out of stock, and it might be a while before they come back with more, I'd go with the first. Truth is, I'd probably experiment a bit with a cheaper deba just to get a feel for it, since I haven't had much experience in this department.
 
I'm certain either knife will be of the highest quality.

I'm not familiar with the white steel, so I don't know how it would sharpen. I recently (couple weeks ago) purchased these knives in VG10. They are amazing to work with and sharpen very easily on a diamond/ceramic steel combination.

One thing to be very aware of, Japanese chef knives use a very thin blade, they cut like a razor, but are easily damaged. They are not suitable for frozen foods, bones etc. A family member has managed to bend the edge on one of my new knives already. Everyone has been educated on what the knives are suitable for, so hopefully no further damage.

I also have a Falllkniven K1 and waiting on K2 on backorder. Haven't had a chance to use the Fallkniven much yet, but will do so once the other one arrives.

Whichever one you choose, I think you will be impressed with the way they cut.

ShikiGyuto180.jpg


ShikiPetty140.jpg


ShikiNakiri165.jpg



Kevin

BTW JapaneseChefKnife is great to deal with. Maybe a bit on the pricey side, but shipping is cheap and extremely fast. My last order arrived in 4 days.
 
Hi,

Do you mean the TK1 and TK2 ? If yes, I have them and I can tell you they are really nice and cut like there's no tomorrow !
 
A deba is a stiff-bladed fillet knife (some are also used for chopping through bones and it's a popular practice to sharpen right near the heel at a steeper angle), but it can be used as an all-purpose knife.
 
what are you going to use the knife for?
A deba hocho, can be used for a bit of every thing, since it has a more robust blade.
whereas other knives tend to be more specialized.

As dag-nabitt said, these knives are meant for slicing and not chopping..I have to tell my wife that over and over again.
And frankly, i didn't spend thousands of dollars on my stones to polish her kitchen knives:D

But use them correctly and they are second to none in a kitchen.
And no, I don't really find them hard to sharpen.
 
The Shun santuko is very versitile. If you are limited to one new puchase, the most useful knife though would be an 8" Shun chef knife. For the money either would be hard to beat.
 
I plan to use this knife as an all-round kitchen knife: slicing meat, vegetables and so on. Of course, I don't plan to do any chopping with it, only slicing. I've seen on Murray Carter that he has some of his kitchen knives available: I'm very tempted. Thanks for your insights.
 
just be aware a deba is NOT....i repeat NOT an all-purpose knife....most japanese knives have a VERY SPECIFIC purpose.....the last knife on earth i would choose as an everyday knife is a deba......it is very very heavy and thick.....that is unless you break down fish all day at home:D......carter makes great knives-there are many other cheaper options on sites like japanesechefsknives.com though......ryan
 
There are better all-purpose knives, but anyone can use anything. This must have got your blood boiling, Ryan. You actually used the spacebar!
 
thom....sure anyone can use any type of knife for any purpose.....would u recommend to use a .... a machete to peel an apple?.....oh how bout using a chainsaw to carve your thanksgiving turkey.....maybe a heavy meat cleaver to chop up some hard boiled eggs ?....for someone that has never used a deba-how could u even remotely say it could be used as an all purpose knife....ryan
 
Traditional Japanese knives (Deba, Yanagi, Usaba, etc.) are optimized for certain foods (fish and vegetables) and / or specific cuts used in Japanese cuisine. A Deba is very specialized knife, sort of the equivalent of a butcher knife / meat cleaver; used to cut through the bones of large, whole fish and portion them into fillets. Unless you need to break down fish (with large bones) on a regular basis, its’ not meant for or suitable for an all purpose knife.

A single bevel edge maybe more precise, but a double ground edge in my experience is sturdier and more versatile with meats and poultry. If you’re dealing with other foods than fish and soft veggies, look for a Gyuto / chef’s knife with a double-ground edge for a general purpose (no chopping) workhorse.
 
ryan9977 said:
would u recommend to use a .... a machete to peel an apple?
Click to expand...

Is the blade clean? I peel apples with my chef knives all the time.

ryan9977 said:
.....oh how bout using a chainsaw to carve your thanksgiving turkey
Click to expand...

Are chainsaws knives? The heavy use of periods is finding it's way into your words.

ryan9977 said:
....for someone that has never used a deba-how could u even remotely say it could be used as an all purpose knife....ryan
Click to expand...

There's a handle and a robust blade that's not too long to handle. If I can prep food with a Fusion Battle Mistress, how much harder is a little deba going to be?
 
looker said:
A single bevel edge maybe more precise, but a double ground edge in my experience is sturdier and more versatile with meats and poultry. If you’re dealing with other foods than fish and soft veggies, look for a Gyuto / chef’s knife with a double-ground edge for a general purpose (no chopping) workhorse.
Click to expand...

And a V-grind won't piss of any lefties who happen to try and use it.
 
Masamoto's VG-10 gyutos are among the more highly regarded chef knives. Masamoto has a reputation for a good fit and finish, too. You might also enjoy a Grand Cheff gyuto from Sakai Takayuki/Aoki Hamono, too. I don't know their reputation, but I have the 240mm gyuto in that lineup and it was perfect right out of the box (one thing you'll notice if you get hooked on Japanese or Japanese-made blades, is that many makers leave some of the final finish and sharpening for the owner - I'm told Masamoto doesn't have that problem with their gyutos).
 
francoisdm said:
I didn't want to be at the origin of a flame war. The Deba is not an all-purpose knife: point taken. What about the Gyutos listed on this page :http://minilien.com/?j88uAxjKVQ
Click to expand...

I considered those among others before deciding on the Hiro Shiki Series. The deciding factor for me came down to being a sucker for the look of Damascus.

As far as a Gyuto being suitable for general purpose, I'm finding mine has worked well for any general slicing and dicing chores I have done so far. Keep in mind I'm just a kitchen hack, not a trained/experienced chef.

There will always be a task better suited to a different knife (smaller, larger, different blade geometry, etc.) but my meager experience (a few weeks with the new knives) would suggest the Gyuto will work for a wide range of uses.

Kevin
 
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