Advice on accounting for handle thickness with ambidextrous carry pouch sheath

[groy87]

I'm looking to try my hand at making an ambidextrous carry pouch sheath similar to Diomedes Industries' and JouFuu's designs (http://joufuu.com/products/4er-narrowed-ambidextrous-carry-sheath-shark-skin-overlay).

When creating the template for this kind of sheath how do you deal with varying handle thicknesses with the welt design? With a butterfly style pouch sheath the standard practice is to distance the spine of the knife a certain distance from the fold line/center of the sheath to account for the handle thickness. My guess is that I would need something similar with this design but was unsure if it was as easy as adding a similar spacing on both sides of the handle. In any case I wanted to check with other members before burning through too much leather .

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

In any case I wanted to check with other members before burning through too much leather .

Regardless of whatever other good advice you get, I'm going to recommend getting some craft foam sheets and using them to make your final mock-up before you even touch a piece of leather.

It behaves much more like leather than paper or cardstock, and most importantly, you can glue layers of it together to get the exact welt thickness you want to simulate.

 

[sheathmaker]

groy87, on that particular style sheath (as linked), if it is a particularly thick handle you may want o use a 2" long (approximate) wedge to double the thickness of the welt on both sides. to give you extra room near the top of the sheath. You can test this after you cut both the front and the back by fitting both pieces around the knife and then judging if you will need the wedge at all and if so how thick. In any case you want that initial insertion to be tight.

Paul

 

[groy87]

Regardless of whatever other good advice you get, I'm going to recommend getting some craft foam sheets and using them to make your final mock-up before you even touch a piece of leather.

It behaves much more like leather than paper or cardstock, and most importantly, you can glue layers of it together to get the exact welt thickness you want to simulate.

Thank you very much for the advice! I'll make a run to the craftstore today to do just that!

groy87, on that particular style sheath (as linked), if it is a particularly thick handle you may want o use a 2" long (approximate) wedge to double the thickness of the welt on both sides. to give you extra room near the top of the sheath. You can test this after you cut both the front and the back by fitting both pieces around the knife and then judging if you will need the wedge at all and if so how thick. In any case you want that initial insertion to be tight.

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I've had to do something similar on one of the first sheaths you helped me with. After that I became more cautious about the spacing of the handle spine from the fold line of the butterfly sheaths to try to avoid adding the wedge if possible.

In any case though I am still a little unsure about the welt design. In my head I would do the following.
1. Trace an outline of the knife in its side.
2. Make an 1/8th in margin around the blade it self.
3. I would find the widest part of the handle moving away from the blade (For this sheath I am assuming i would do it on both the belly and spine of the handle.)
4. At the widest locations, make a mark 1/8" away from the outline of the knife.
5. Connect the lines with a ruler.
As you can see below in most cases this will leave you with gap larger than 1/8" but in my experience,one that will most likely require a wedge (is not several) no matter how thin the handle is.

Most of my handles run ~3/4" thick at the widest part that would be in the sheath and I was wondering if there is a rule of thumb with the spacing of the welt from the knife handle at the mouth of the sheath (see the "?" in the attached) I could use to get a tight fit without needing to add too many wedges.

Is it as simple as say using the dividing the 5/8-3/4 approximation used to make the butterfly style pouch sheath in half and using that as the spacing at the mouth?


[URL=http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Groy87/media/WIP%20and%20Shop%20Pics/Scan%2025_zps9hwph3im.jpeg.html][/URL]

 

[sheathmaker]

On your illustration I would move the mouth width out to about 3/8" maybe a little more while keeping the 1/8" on down closer to the end of the knife. This could result in a slight curve about mid sheath. You will probably still need a single thickness wedge on each side down about 2".

Paul

 

[groy87]

On your illustration I would move the mouth width out to about 3/8" maybe a little more while keeping the 1/8" on down closer to the end of the knife. This could result in a slight curve about mid sheath. You will probably still need a single thickness wedge on each side down about 2".

Paul

Thank you sir. Just to clarify your are advising at the point where the blade meets the bolster, adjust the angle of the welt outwards to increase the width of the mouth resulting in an hourglass type profile? Or are you advising to move welt outwards at the bolster are parallel to the current lines, resulting in a fatter shield profile?

 

[sheathmaker]

From the bolster to the tip I would leave pretty much as it is and with a curve as opposed an angle I would widen the sheath from that point up. The curve would tend to make the transition look less outstanding than an angle. The interior line of the welt can retain the angle, it won't make a bit of difference there.

Tip: If you create a center line and fold along that line you can do one side of the sheath and then fold and trace and you wind up with a symmetrical sheath pattern.

Paul

 

[groy87]

From the bolster to the tip I would leave pretty much as it is and with a curve as opposed an angle I would widen the sheath from that point up. The curve would tend to make the transition look less outstanding than an angle. The interior line of the welt can retain the angle, it won't make a bit of difference there.

Tip: If you create a center line and fold along that line you can do one side of the sheath and then fold and trace and you wind up with a symmetrical sheath pattern.

Paul

Something like this?

[URL=http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Groy87/media/WIP%20and%20Shop%20Pics/scan26_zpsyi3xkcvd.jpeg.html][/URL]

 

[sheathmaker]

On the spine side of the blade the welt can be more than the 1/2" and can follow the blade shape more (on the interior). This will help to increase retention value inside the sheath. Doing this does not affect the exterior lines (profile) of the sheath. This action will, however, create a dedicated left or right hand sheath. The knife can only be inserted one way.

Paul

 

[groy87]

On the spine side of the blade the welt can be more than the 1/2" and can follow the blade shape more (on the interior). This will help to increase retention value inside the sheath. Doing this does not affect the exterior lines (profile) of the sheath. This action will, however, create a dedicated left or right hand sheath. The knife can only be inserted one way.

Paul

Thanks again for answering my questions. So folding for symmetry works best for the overall sheath design but we still need to be careful about the welt and resultant retention. I am assuming if I modify the welt on this design I will want to keep the 1/8" spacing around the blade and the resultant ~3/8" at the mouth correct?

If I wanted to keep this truly ambidextrous could I tilt the blade when making the template so the resultant spacing on either side of the handle is the same?

 

[sheathmaker]

Folding for symmetry works best or perhaps only on Dagger blades, or spear points or other blades where there is very little clip.

This last iteration of your sheath would work as is for ambidextrous, (the knife could be inserted either way) but would always tend to be a little loose toward the tip......but it would work, so you might try it and see what you think.

Sheath design starts with the specific knife and not the other way around. The sheath you used as your idea starter was/is for a knife much different than the one you are working with. What worked well for that knife may not even come close to the one you are planning for. Read the knife, study the knife and then formulate your ideas for a sheath style and pattern. This also how the very beginnings of your own personal style start.

Paul

 

[groy87]

Folding for symmetry works best or perhaps only on Dagger blades, or spear points or other blades where there is very little clip.

This last iteration of your sheath would work as is for ambidextrous, (the knife could be inserted either way) but would always tend to be a little loose toward the tip......but it would work, so you might try it and see what you think.

Sheath design starts with the specific knife and not the other way around. The sheath you used as your idea starter was/is for a knife much different than the one you are working with. What worked well for that knife may not even come close to the one you are planning for. Read the knife, study the knife and then formulate your ideas for a sheath style and pattern. This also how the very beginnings of your own personal style start.

Paul

Paul,

Thank you very much for the incite. I am currently working on sheaths for both knives I've shown and was toying with the idea of using the same style sheath for both knives but i see you point. What works well for one knife style may not for another.

The first knife is probably wide enough for shield style cross carry sheath but the 2nd is probably too thin for that and would benefit from a butterfly style pouch but that is just my take.