Advice on AR Kits

seeverscpa · Nov 20, 2016

I settled on where I am acquiring an AR kit. It's a complete upper kit that includes the lower build kit, and all parts. Separately I'll get the lower from the local FFL.

My only real question is do I need any of these upper or lower vice blocks that some assemblers use when assembling the rifle?

Also, does anyone use a drill to dimple the barrel where the gas block set screws sit? I thought it is crazy to take a drill to the barrel in order to better secure the gas block to the barrel. Cant locktite achieve that?

Any other personal experience on AR building is welcome. PSA has some very good pre-black Friday AR kits on sale.

cricketdave · Nov 20, 2016

The lower goes together with basic hand tools, a punch and a screwdriver, hammer to tap stuff when needed. You don't really need anything else to put that together. Take a look at some youtube vids on tips to not scratch stuff up. The upper if its complete with bolt and charging handle just goes right on with the two pins in the lower. No need to dimple the barrel or anything if its already put together. I've never had one come loose or apart at the gas block.

Takes about 15 minutes to put the lower together and a couple seconds to pop the upper on and bingo your ready to go shoot. Add pop up sights or the optic of your choice depending on what you want to do with it and your good to go.

seeverscpa · Nov 20, 2016

Thanks for the quick response Dave. And yes the upper is complete with BCG, etc all set to go. And I see what you are saying - the kit I am getting already has the gas system assembled. It is really just the lower that requires assembly.

fast14riot · Nov 20, 2016

Use tape on the lower to protect it when hammering in roll pins, especially bolt catch. I build all my AR match guns, beyond basic dining room table assembly. Pick up a 1/4" x 2" clevis pin from Lowe's or Ace Hardware, it will make installing the take down detent so much easier and does the same thing as the tool sold for that specific purpose. I also like to tap the rear take down detent hole (4-40), just clip off the spring the same length as the set screw. A shop apron or towel across your lap will save frustration looking for dropped parts.

-Xander

bdmicarta · Nov 21, 2016

The hardest part of the whole process is installing the roll pin for the trigger guard. People hammer those in but I prefer to press it in with a C-clamp. The roll pin for the bolt release is easy to do with large needle-nose pliers, I wrap a little tape around the ends to not accidentally scratch anything. When you put the front takedown pin in, spread out a big towel on the floor or on a table and work right on top of it so if the spring and plunger pop out they don't go across the room and into the best hiding place in your shop.

The specialty tools such as the vice block are used for assembling uppers. If your upper is already assembled then you don't need them.

seeverscpa · Nov 22, 2016

bdmicarta said:
The hardest part of the whole process is installing the roll pin for the trigger guard. People hammer those in but I prefer to press it in with a C-clamp. The roll pin for the bolt release is easy to do with large needle-nose pliers, I wrap a little tape around the ends to not accidentally scratch anything. When you put the front takedown pin in, spread out a big towel on the floor or on a table and work right on top of it so if the spring and plunger pop out they don't go across the room and into the best hiding place in your shop.

The specialty tools such as the vice block are used for assembling uppers. If your upper is already assembled then you don't need them.

On closer examination the PSA upper is fully assembled - meaning the gas system is already set up, the BCG is ready to go, etc So like you implied, it is the lower that will require the assembly.

But looking at the costs of the additional items I will need, I am better off picking up the Ruger AR 556 for instance,here is why: Costs from PSA -

Upper kit including all parts to complete (except for stripped lower) $389.99
Stripped PSA lower $79.99
Magpul rear site $55.05
One PMAG $12.05
TOTAL $537.08

I can get the Ruger AR 556 for $569 - so for $32 more I don't have to assemble anything. But I was looking forward to the assembly process. The only real difference with the Ruger versus the PSA kit is the PSA comes with an MOE handguard which has MLOK functionality so I can add a fore grip, or a picatinny slab to then put a light on. I cant do that with the M4 standard hand guard on the Ruger.

I guess there isn't that much more savings in the kits anymore???

fast14riot · Nov 22, 2016

It depends on how customized you want to go. My ARs are built for very specific purposes, either to meet competition rules, or for specific applications. It was cheaper to build getting exactly what I want than to buy, plus no parts to swap out and sell off later.

Barrel, bolt and trigger are the important parts, focus on those. Everything else is there to support those.

-X

Sid Post · Nov 23, 2016

seeverscpa said:
On closer examination the PSA upper is fully assembled - meaning the gas system is already set up, the BCG is ready to go, etc So like you implied, it is the lower that will require the assembly.

But looking at the costs of the additional items I will need, I am better off picking up the Ruger AR 556 for instance,here is why: Costs from PSA -

Upper kit including all parts to complete (except for stripped lower) $389.99
Stripped PSA lower $79.99
Magpul rear site $55.05
One PMAG $12.05
TOTAL $537.08

I can get the Ruger AR 556 for $569 - so for $32 more I don't have to assemble anything. But I was looking forward to the assembly process. The only real difference with the Ruger versus the PSA kit is the PSA comes with an MOE handguard which has MLOK functionality so I can add a fore grip, or a picatinny slab to then put a light on. I cant do that with the M4 standard hand guard on the Ruger.

I guess there isn't that much more savings in the kits anymore???

The only thing you are typically saving is FET (tax on complete firearms) when you buy the parts versus the complete rifle. With AR-15's selling for under $500 around here, why would anyone build a cheap AR-15?

It makes more sense to build a customized AR-15. Do you want a railed forend? Special barrel? Anything non-standard? If so, home built might be a reasonable option.

Wheeler80 · Nov 30, 2016

seeverscpa said:
The only real difference with the Ruger versus the PSA kit is the PSA comes with an MOE handguard which has MLOK functionality so I can add a fore grip, or a picatinny slab to then put a light on. I cant do that with the M4 standard hand guard on the Ruger.

FWIW, you can swap out the handguard for the MOE. I think mine cost $25.

Converge · Dec 2, 2016

My PSA Mid Length has been great. Bought the Upper, complete lower, and BCG all separate over a few months. Rifle came out to $570 total, only missing a rear sight. First picture below. Since then I've added a MI quad rail, Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight, and a Primary Arms Advanced RDS with a Primary Arms 1/3rd mount. So that was another few hundred into it. But for the initial $570 I got a nice mid length rifle with a nickel boron BCG and magpul furniture. It was definitely a good deal, free shipping on the upper and lower I believe. The rifle has been great. It's reliable and accurate. Haven't had a single malfunction and I can shoot 2-3" groups at 100 with it. I wouldn't mind the Ruger but I wanted the PSA because of the mil spec barrel and my choice of BCG and rear sight.

seeverscpa · Dec 2, 2016

Well done guys. I'm very excited about the whole process. I really like that forend set up Converge.

fast14riot · Dec 2, 2016

And when you're ready, you can build a full custom long range competition rig like this...

Building is fun, but for a basic gun it's hard to beat the price of built uppers and lowers. Also, you get the benefit of calling someone to complain that things aren't working right.

-Xander

Converge · Dec 3, 2016

seeverscpa said:
Well done guys. I'm very excited about the whole process. I really like that forend set up Converge.

Thanks man. That is a Midwest Industries 2 piece drop in quad rail. They make them in carbine/mid/rifle length so you can get one if you're interested. I would stay away from the UTG/Tapco stuff. Get something that is quality if you want a rail. If you really want to go the best route then a free float rail is the way to go... but that requires some gun smithing to remove the front sight post and swapping in a low profile gas block and removal of the delta ring. Not too complicated but it will take more time and cost more money. A drop in rail/forend is the easiest solution, and if you get a good one like the Midwest rail then there are no issues. The only downside is a little bit of movement but it's barely noticeable. Takes 2 minutes to put on.

fast14riot said:
And when you're ready, you can build a full custom long range competition rig like this...

Building is fun, but for a basic gun it's hard to beat the price of built uppers and lowers. Also, you get the benefit of calling someone to complain that things aren't working right.

-Xander

Hell yeah. I can't wait to get a long range rifle. I want something in semi which would be an AR, as well as a nice precision bolt gun. For the bolt gun I'm thinking 6.5 creedmoor definitely..... For the AR if I stick with 5.56 I can just get an upper and swap it on to my existing lower. I really want to do some long range shooting, it's super fun. Around here to get past 100 yards I'd have to drive over an hour but it's worth it. But even then it's nothing crazy.... maybe 300 yards. Not like out west.... those 1000 yard ranges and such. Damn that would be cool! Takes some real skill though!

cricketdave · Dec 3, 2016

I built this one years ago I've used it in several classes and shot it a lot.

Built this one for my daughter

fast14riot · Dec 3, 2016

I'm not a big fan of the 6.5 creedmoor, I like 6.5x47L and 6BR. Both hold many world and national records than the CM. 6br is economic to shoot with using little powder, but is a bit finicky to get to feed in a repeater. 6.5x47L is a bit more expensive up front for reloading, but brass lasts up to and over 20 reloads! My next project is a 6.5x47L, just finished a tactical/hunting rifle on a M1917 action in .30-'06 that is showing promise so far with factory ammo.

Back to AR's, for 300, I see no reason not to stick with 5.56. A 1:8 twist 20" barrel would be perfect with 69 or 75 grain bullets out to 500y.

-Xander