Advice on first knife making idea.

[Loren Jones]

I want to try dipping my toes into the kiddie pool of knife making. I want to know if my concept makes sense for an absolute beginner. Please tell me where I’m on target and where I’m not.

I’ve chosen what seems like a super simple design to start with. I don’t want to do any forging and plan to farm out the heat treat to a professional company.

My idea is to make a Chinese vegetable cleaver. I chose this because very little profiling will be required and I don’t have to worry about forming a tip. It also doesn’t require a plunge grind. I want to start by purchasing a rectangular piece of high quality stainless and grind a bevel from spine to edge and cut the excess metal away at the back to creat a tang.

From there I would drill the tang for pins for the scales and I’d put the edge bevel in place. Next I’d send it off for hardening. Once I got it back from hardening I’d attach the scales and put a final edge on it.

Does this seem like a workable plan?

What is the minimum tool I could reasonably start with for something like this.

I have access to a bandsaw and reciprocating saw for cutting the metal away to create the tang. I have a regular 6” bench grinder. I have a Ken Onion WSKTS. I have Japanese whetstones. I have woodworking belt sanders. I do t have a belt grinder like would be used for blade making.

can I use a large woodworking belt sander mounted upside down in a vice to create a flat platter on which to do my main profiling? If not would the blade grinder for the Ken onion suffice? If not what’s the minimum tool I’d need to buy?

Sorry for the long post and tia for any help.
Loren Jones

 

[Hankins]

You will be cutting Tool steel Which type of bandsaw do you have?
That's the potential issue here... Otherwise Yes you seem to have a solid plan

 

[evergreensSequoiaseucalyptusandOaks]

~

 

[Loren Jones]

You will be cutting Tool steel Which type of bandsaw do you have?
That's the potential issue here... Otherwise Yes you seem to have a solid plan

Well the bandsaw Is a large powerful Rikon. It’s a good saw. It’s my dad’s though and I’d have to check on a blade. I could also use a abrasive wheel on a chop saw if that would be better.

 

[Loren Jones]

You can actually make a knife only using a Nicholson File and a couple packs of Auto-Motive Sandpaper from any Local Auto Parts Store ~ You can obtain simple Symmetrical Matching Plunge Lines by using a File Guide and a Hand File or Belt Sander ~ Depending on what type of Belt Sander You have it could be easier or sometimes not so much.....Just Depends ~ Here's a Cool Pattern for you when You move on from your Cleaver ~ Sounds just about as much work is going to go into the Cleaver Honestly doing the Full Flat Grind "From Spine to edge " ~ and all that Cutting ~ My Opinion only because You are asking is just Start on a Simple Knife Pattern there are Hundreds of them on Google Images ~

~ File Guide ~
View attachment 1318380

~ Pattern ~

View attachment 1318381

That’s a cool design. I think I want to stick with a kitchen knife for this first one because I want it to be something I use daily.

Also since posting I’ve looked around a little and am thinking of getting a 4x36 belt sander or a 1x42 belt grinder. Price similar between the two. Which is more advantageous?

 

[scott kozub]

The concern is that metal cutting bandsaws run much slower than wood saws and metal saws have much finer and closer spaced teeth. If you use a wood saw you snap the teeth away right away and possibly snap the blade. You could use a hacksaw or an angle grinder with a disk. Just be careful. I knew a guy whos son was killed when a cutoff someone else was using exploded and caught him in the neck.

As noted above a file will give you bevels surprisingly fast. Heres a link to a file jig.
this will help with the bevels and you could also wrap the files in sandpaper.

Another option would be to contact JT. He could cut you a blank and heat treat it and you just need to grind it. You won't be able to file it though after heat treat. Yes yout belt sander will work. You'll go through a few belts.

Good luck. Post your progress.

 

[Loren Jones]

The concern is that metal cutting bandsaws run much slower than wood saws and metal saws have much finer and closer spaced teeth. If you use a wood saw you snap the teeth away right away and possibly snap the blade. You could use a hacksaw or an angle grinder with a disk. Just be careful. I knew a guy whos son was killed when a cutoff someone else was using exploded and caught him in the neck.

As noted above a file will give you bevels surprisingly fast. Heres a link to a file jig.
this will help with the bevels and you could also wrap the files in sandpaper.

Another option would be to contact JT. He could cut you a blank and heat treat it and you just need to grind it. You won't be able to file it though after heat treat. Yes yout belt sander will work. You'll go through a few belts.

Good luck. Post your progress.

thanks for the advice. I just texted dad to see if he has any metal cutting blades for the bandsaw. I dunno if he does. I have a 4” grinder and a disk so maybe that or the hacksaw will be best. Would just a reciprocating jigsaw with a good blade work?

Is it best to do most of the grinding prior to heat treat then just do some finishing and put the edge on after heat treat? I’ll check out the file jig link

 

[Hankins]

Try here for your bandsaw blades: https://www.mcmaster.com/band-saw-blades/for-use-on~stainless-steel/
Your bandsaw HAS to be able to run slow/strong or your asking for problems Watch your teeth per inch for steel thickness
Try this for your steel: https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/aeb-l-stainless-steel
.083 x 2.5

 

[Loren Jones]

Try here for your bandsaw blades: https://www.mcmaster.com/band-saw-blades/for-use-on~stainless-steel/
Your bandsaw HAS to be able to run slow/strong or your asking for problems Watch your teeth per inch for steel thickness
Try this for your steel: https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/aeb-l-stainless-steel
.083 x 2.5

Thanks for the info. I’m not sure the bandsaw has pulleys to adjust to a slower speed but it may. I dunno if I want to spend $60 or so on a bandsaw blade. Maybe a good hacksaw and some elbow grease, or the jigsaw.
That steel looks very interesting. I’m used to VG10 kitchen knives and am frankly not impressed. I like a very sharp (effortless shaving) edge and the VG10 gets there with little effort but it doesn’t hold it too well I sharpen at about 15 degrees. I am looking for something that will give me a good balance of better retention of that ultra sharp edge and ease of resharpening. AEB-L looks pretty good for that I. Terms of taking a very fine edge and holding it fairly well.

I was also looking at Z-wear, M390 and zfinit. I looked at z-max but I’m not sure I want something that hard. Thoughts?

 

[Hubert S.]

The minimum tool for profiling and beveling is probably a file. You can build a filing jig for the bevels as shown in the video below. I have made several knives from 80CRV2 that way, including one 7" kitchen knife. A small knife with a 3" or 4" blade can be done in about an hour of filing. A Chinese cleaver will probably take twice as long or longer.

You mentioned you have a 4" grinder. Is that an angle grinder? Those work well for rough cutting the profile with a cut off wheel, then clean it up with a file. A bench vise helps a lot to hold the blade while working on it.

If you get it professionally heat treated, check how thin you can go at the edge with whoever you choose to treat it. I made the mistake of leaving the edge too thick before heat treating and spent a long time thinning the edge. It takes forever with hand tools.

I like AEB-L, it cuts pretty easily with a bandsaw. Not sure how easy it is to file. If you order from AKS, you can also get some nice handle material there.

 

[TheEdge01]

That’s a cool design. I think I want to stick with a kitchen knife for this first one because I want it to be something I use daily.

Also since posting I’ve looked around a little and am thinking of getting a 4x36 belt sander or a 1x42 belt grinder. Price similar between the two. Which is more advantageous?

I personally use a 4x36 with a steel plate bolted to the frame to assist with plunge cuts. They aren’t ideal for knife making but it does get the job done if you do your part. There are plenty of belt options out there that will make life much easier. I order mine from Super grit and they work really well. Combat Abrasives has a nice large selection of belts as well.

 

[scott kozub]

Depends if you want stainless or carbon.

If you go stainless AEBL is awesome in the kitchen. It's easy to sharpen,extremely tough so it performs well hard and takes on an edge similar to carbon steels. It's also cheap. There are a couple issues though. It warps like crazy in the heat treat and doesn't grind well when soft so many including myself do all grinding post heat treat. Non of those are issues for though if you sending it out except you'll have to leave the edge a bit thicker so it'll take longer to grind the final edge after heat treat.

S35vn is another great steel. It's about 3 times the cost of AEBL (still pretty cheap though) takes a great edge due to the small carbide and will hold an edge better than AEBL. it stays straighter in the heat treat so you can grind/file it thinner pre heat treat which will save you some time.

As suggested above, make sure you check with your heat treat to see how thin you can go.

 

[scott kozub]

If your reciprocating saw is a jjg saw you could possibly clamp it upside down in a vise and use it. Just be careful. If it's a sawsall type saw it will be tough. Just stick to straight cuts which with your cleaver idea shouldn't be a problem.

Also, if your getting stainless you need good drill bits. I use cobalt. Regular bits tend to over heat and those titanium coated bits are useless. A lot of stainless steels will harden as you drill and then your pooched. If that happens a carbide masonry bit will actually work but the hole won't be pretty.

This is your first knife and you don't have a grinder so stay away from M390 or the other super steels unless you want to be handsanding for years.

 

[Hengelo_77]

files, sandpaper and enough time
Not everybody likes hand filing, some people get a zen-feeling from it.

If you decide to make more knives it will make you appreciate powertools and make you understand the process well

Just do it

 

[Loren Jones]

I personally use a 4x36 with a steel plate bolted to the frame to assist with plunge cuts. They aren’t ideal for knife making but it does get the job done if you do your part. There are plenty of belt options out there that will make life much easier. I order mine from Super grit and they work really well. Combat Abrasives has a nice large selection of belts as well.

Do you have a YouTube video about grinder mods? I saw one where a guy did wht you describe and that’s where I got the idea of a 4x36. I could get a 1x42 for similar money but I just wonder how well such a narrow belt works when you have more grinding to do. Any thoughts on which would be better if price were similar?

 

[noseoil]

I started making blades with a 1x30 Horrid Freight sander. It was crude, but it beats all of the hand filing (arthritis). It works well enough, but takes a bit of patience. I sent for some good quality belts & jumped in.

I would start with some scrap steel to get the hang of things first, whatever you do. Mild steel can act as a teacher & be pretty forgiving, especially if you don't need heat treating for the first knife or two. The basic techniques are the same, no matter what steel you use prior to heat treat for a stock reduction blade. Practice will let you learn without having to make a "perfect" blade, something which is almost impossible until you've made 100 blades or more anyway....

 

[Loren Jones]

If your reciprocating saw is a jjg saw you could possibly clamp it upside down in a vise and use it. Just be careful. If it's a sawsall type saw it will be tough. Just stick to straight cuts which with your cleaver idea shouldn't be a problem.

Also, if your getting stainless you need good drill bits. I use cobalt. Regular bits tend to over heat and those titanium coated bits are useless. A lot of stainless steels will harden as you drill and then your pooched. If that happens a carbide masonry bit will actually work but the hole won't be pretty.

This is your first knife and you don't have a grinder so stay away from M390 or the other super steels unless you want to be handsanding for years.

I personally use a 4x36 with a steel plate bolted to the frame to assist with plunge cuts. They aren’t ideal for knife making but it does get the job done if you do your part. There are plenty of belt options out there that will make life much easier. I order mine from Super grit and they work really well. Combat Abrasives has a nice large selection of belts as well.

The minimum tool for profiling and beveling is probably a file. You can build a filing jig for the bevels as shown in the video below. I have made several knives from 80CRV2 that way, including one 7" kitchen knife. A small knife with a 3" or 4" blade can be done in about an hour of filing. A Chinese cleaver will probably take twice as long or longer.

You mentioned you have a 4" grinder. Is that an angle grinder? Those work well for rough cutting the profile with a cut off wheel, then clean it up with a file. A bench vise helps a lot to hold the blade while working on it.

If you get it professionally heat treated, check how thin you can go at the edge with whoever you choose to treat it. I made the mistake of leaving the edge too thick before heat treating and spent a long time thinning the edge. It takes forever with hand tools.

I like AEB-L, it cuts pretty easily with a bandsaw. Not sure how easy it is to file. If you order from AKS, you can also get some nice handle material there.

Yes, its an angle grinder. I'd be very afraid in my hands of the possibility of taking away too much metal with that. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy some belt machine to do this or will use a belt sander turned upright.

 

[Richard338]

I think a Chinese style cleaver should have a patina. A surprisingly good steel to start out with is A2. I made a few kitchen knives from A2 around 2005 before taking a long break. Those knives are still going strong and have a nice patina. They were hardened at 60 and take a great edge.

 

[Loren Jones]

If your reciprocating saw is a jjg saw you could possibly clamp it upside down in a vise and use it. Just be careful. If it's a sawsall type saw it will be tough. Just stick to straight cuts which with your cleaver idea shouldn't be a problem.

Also, if your getting stainless you need good drill bits. I use cobalt. Regular bits tend to over heat and those titanium coated bits are useless. A lot of stainless steels will harden as you drill and then your pooched. If that happens a carbide masonry bit will actually work but the hole won't be pretty.

This is your first knife and you don't have a grinder so stay away from M390 or the other super steels unless you want to be handsanding for years.

Yes it's a standard style handheld jigsaw, not a sawzall. It's good to know it could work. Thanks for the info on drills.

 

[Loren Jones]

I think a Chinese style cleaver should have a patina. A surprisingly good steel to start out with is A2. I made a few kitchen knives from A2 around 2005 before taking a long break. Those knives are still going strong and have a nice patina. They were hardened at 60 and take a great edge.

Really good to know. I'm not fixated on stainless and would strongly consider a carbon steel and a patina has a lot of appeal.

I'm willing to spend a little on steel without going crazy. A2 sounds right along the lines of what I'd like. Do you think I'd find it an improvement on VG10?

Any other carbon steels you'd recommend.