Advice on my first Traditional

EZ Bake

EZ Bake

Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
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I've got a fairly decent collection of Spyderco, Kershaw, and a few SAKs. I've owned a few higher-end semi-customs, but have been looking more and more at a traditional slip-joint or lock-blade lately.

I'm somewhat of a steel nut, and I'm not afraid to use my knives or sharpen harder steels. This won't be a pretty shelf-sitter, it will be a user.

I was looking at Al Mar's stuff, and Queen Cutlery (as well as Case, Buck, Boker, etc.), but I'm still undecided. I've heard good things about Queen Cutlery and I like the thought of D2 in a tiny slip-joint, but I've also heard a few things here and there about blade-play and a few QC things here and there (not that all knives don't have these issues every now and then).

I'd like a smaller knife (3.5" or less blade) with one or two blades, and I like pretty scales (I prefer wood or textured pearl to most bone/shell material). I'd like to keep it at $100 or less, but if I just find the right knife, I might splurge for something in the $150-$200 range.

What do you guys recommend?
 
Great Eastern Cutlery. A good place to start.

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Look at Great Eastern Cutlery. Pretty much the BEST pocketknife ~$100 will buy you.
Most traditionals are going to have blades less than 3.5", so you're gonna be good on the blade length side of things.

Queen makes a good knife, and they come in at about 60% the cost of a GEC on average. But for my money I'm all in on GEC as they tend to have better fit and finish than anything else I've tried. Not to mention I also dig their aesthetics more than any othe brand. . . so there's that.

And to boot GEC's 1095 is top notch stuff. Queen's D2 is no slouch either, so there's that too.


-nate
 
If you are used to "modern" folders, you might find it easier to approach traditional slipjoints with one blade, or with two blades on the same end of the handle.
Staying with GEC, I would suggest #23, #56 or #72 as a good starting point. Images follow:

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Just to give you some ideas....
Fausto
:cool:
 
Haha - I was wondering what GEC stood for. I kept seeing it in traditional knife talk on the various forums. Appreciate the advice - I'm looking into them now.
 
Yep, GEC should have something that suits your needs. While searching for a GEC, please keep in mind that they make the Northfield and Tidioute brands as well as the Great Eastern Cutlery brands.

If you like wood, take a look at some patterns in Coconut Palm Wood, Ebony Wood, Snakewood, Mexican Becote Wood, and Cocobolo Wood.

They offer some very nice selections in Pearl as well.
 
Queen's D2 is very good, but I'd suggest inspecting in person if at all possible. I'd have no problem ordering a GEC knife from any reputable inet store.

Ed J
 
It really is hard to go wrong with a Great Eastern I own several and the F&F is superb for a sub 100 $ knife:thumbup:.
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So are the Northfield and Tidioute brands both as high quality as the GEC branded knives are? These look pretty nice, but I have to say that 1095 isn't exactly expensive steel, and I sort of have the same issue with the price as I do with the Al Mar Hawk (being made from AUS-8). I don't mind paying more for construction, fit/finish, and overall QC, so I'm not saying I won't buy Al Mar or GEC, but the Queen Cutlery's D2 is still in the back of my mind.

Can anyone PM me a place to buy GEC knives? I found them at a few places, but not really any other places that I normally buy from.
 
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EZ Bake said:
Where can I even buy GEC? I found them at GP, but not really any other places that I normally buy from.
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On GEC's website you will find a list of authorized dealers.

If you want "better" steels than 1095 or 440C you will need to look elsewhere.

The Northfield and Tidioutes are just as well made as the GEC's. Same company, same QC, and same construction.

In my honest opinion, I think that if you get a Northfield or a Tidioute in 1095 (or a GEC in 440C) you will be glad you did despite the fact that you are a steel nut. They are excellent knives and the steels used are more than adequate. I think you would agree if you owned one. Many people, myself included, believe that GEC knives are the best production slipjoints on the market today.

Queen is a good choice too but aside from their Schatt & Morgan knives, I have little experience with them.

If you insist on a higher end steel like CPM154, 154CM, ATS-34, etc. there are plenty of very talented custom slipjoint makers to choose from if you want to spend more.
 
Good advice for looking at the GEC brand knives. The fit and finish is top noch on all I have or have seen.

I have Two Queen (collabs.....Burke and Pardue).

I also have a Schatt and Morgan File and Wire Large Barlow.

Neither the Two Queen collaborations nor the File and Wire have near the fit as the GEC knives I have. These may just be bad luck on my part. The Burke/queen barlow is great, but the back spring has gaps you can see light through. The Shatt and Morgan (also a Queen made brand) is shiny, pretty, has a great stainless steel, and has largish gaps on the springs/liners/bolsters that you can see through, and the blades (both pen blade and primary spear) has a wiggle.

The springs on the Pardue/canoe and S&W are very soft which makes it very very easy to open. The Handles are stag, and it feels like a stout little knife for a user. Price is less than 100, and it is a real looker. The blades have no wiggle side to side when open.

(All of these others are a Little cheaper than some of the larger GEC's but not by much).

The Burke/Queen large barlow has no blade wiggle, and a nice strong spring, and feels very stout. It is definitely a keeper, and will be a great user, despite the less than stellar back spring to liner fit.

I have acquired 8 different GEC made knives (4 Scharade pioneer/scout pattern,branded Scharade, but made by GEC, and I would put them easily on par with the Northfield gec's), an all steel sunfish, two small barlow's and a single blade pioneer northfield).

NO loose blades, or spring/liner/bolster/scale gaps to really mention. All feel very stout. One GEC Tideoute barlow I bought for my dad has what I would consider softer springs, but nothing I would be concerned about. It is just easier to open than some others. No blade wiggle or gaps etc.

I held two Schatt and Morgan file and wire's the day before Christmas, and they were both tight all around, with no gaps to speak of, so I guess I just got a bad example (from the standpoint of blade wiggle, and liner/bolster/spring fit......though it is still beautiful, and doubt I will send it back).
 
Railsplitter said:
On GEC's website you will find a list of authorized dealers.

If you want "better" steels than 1095 or 440C you will need to look elsewhere.

The Northfield and Tidioutes are just as well made as the GEC's. Same company, same QC, and same construction.

In my honest opinion, I think that if you get a Northfield or a Tidioute in 1095 (or a GEC in 440C) you will be glad you did despite the fact that you are a steel nut. They are excellent knives and the steels used are more than adequate. I think you would agree if you owned one. Many people, myself included, believe that GEC knives are the best production slipjoints on the market today.

Queen is a good choice too but aside from their Schatt & Morgan knives, I have little experience with them.

If you insist on a higher end steel like CPM154, 154CM, ATS-34, etc. there are plenty of very talented custom slipjoint makers to choose from if you want to spend more.
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That's honestly what I keep thinking about. If I were picking up a Case or Buck for under $50, it wouldn't be a big deal, but this is a fair amount of money and for just another $100 or so over GEC, I'm approaching custom knife-maker territory and I can pick the materials (which to be fair would probably take it up another $100 or more if I just went nuts :) ). I was seriously thinking about going to a custom maker once upon a time to get a S90v, Ti-bolstered, Laminated G10 or Linen-Micarta traditional knife (didn't know for sure if I wanted a slip-joint or a lock-back).

I don't mean to start a "which steel is better" debate either - I fully appreciate 440C and 1095 as I've got knives with both (I honestly don't have a problem with some of the newer Sandvic steels either). They're just not super-expensive steels and I make my purchases carefully - which is why I seriously appreciate the info everyone has provided. If the price is justified by workmanship, then I'm OK with that.

I will say that I very much like what I've seen from GEC so far. I wish a local store had either Queen or GEC in-stock as I'd love to handle one in-person.

Edited to add: I hit up Great Eastern's website and found a list of retailers online - some of them have a lot better prices - I appreciate that for sure.

Again, thanks for all the input - this traditional-knife world is a pretty cool one.
 
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I'd suggest not spending too much on your first one, in case you don't like the style.

The best (for the money) and most consistent quality I've seen lately is from Boker. They have carbon steel pocketknives available in "apaloosa" bone, salvaged beer barrel wood, and "washboard" brown bone in a variety of traditional patterns. All are in the $40-$60 range.

I've just ordered my first Great Eastern. Can't recommend them until I inspect it.

The File & Wire series from Schatt and Morgan (Queen) are excellent in quality, but are higher priced only available in a limited selection of patterns and materials.

Canal Street Cutlery has some freakin' beautiful knives. I've had some mixed results with the quality (pattern design and finish) in the past, but my most recent purchases from them have been excellent.

Happy shopping!
 
I'd give Case or Buck a try first. They're simply less expensive than S&M and GEC. If you decide that slipjoints are indeed for you then move up market.

I'll let others inform you about the steel choices from Case/Buck.

Mark
 
Hi EZB,

What are you planning on using the slip joint for? Office/discreet carry, primary folder etc? Do you plan to carry one of your other folders in addition to the slip joint? I've found that one larger blade and one smaller blade is all I need (larger and smaller being relative). For example, a Sebenza and a Case Swayback Jack/Peanut go great, or I might go with just a GEC #48 Jack or wharncliffe trapper as my only knife. There are so many different patterns that a little more info is required. Do you have a pattern in mind besides a smallish knife?
 
EZ Bake said:
I'm somewhat of a steel nut, and I'm not afraid to use my knives or sharpen harder steels. This won't be a pretty shelf-sitter, it will be a user.
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Paraphrasing Pirsig, quality is that which gives peace of mind. Bruce Cockburn restates CS Lewis when he says, "It depends on what you look at, obviously. Even more it depends on the way that you see."

All this to say, that a move towards a traditional pattern might be a time to try to come to peace of mind with less expensive traditional steels. This is YMMV territory, but in my mind, traditional knives are tied to traditional working tools that are meant to be used, maintained and eventually worn out and decommissioned. 1095 Carbon steel has a beloved place among traditionals for a good reason. It's very tough, takes a lot of abuse and sharpens easily to a very fine edge. Unless you work in a rust factory (and some folk essentially do), I find there is tremendous pleasure in sharpening and maintaining a nice 1095 blade.

Among the stainless steels out there, I've had great luck with both Bucks older 440C and newer 420HC. Note, most folks assert that Buck's heat treatment puts there version of 420HC closer to 440C. These aren't super steels, but they're not junk.

In some sense, putting a super steel in a traditional knife is sort of like putting modern fuel injected Honda motor into an old American muscle car. Yeh, it can be done but it ain't right, if you know what I mean.
 
Hi!

Do you know which pattern you prefer?

Trapper, Stockman, Peanut or whatever?

If you´re not really sure what you want, you could order some Rough Riders. So you get a lot of working knives and when you´ve chosen you can order a GEC, Case, Carl Schlieper or or or...

For beginning I would prefer a stockman. A three bladed knife is one for all of your cutting. If you want something other than 440C or 1095, you could try Bucks 420HC. Great steel.

Kind regards
Andi
 
pinnah said:
Paraphrasing Pirsig, quality is that which gives peace of mind. Bruce Cockburn restates CS Lewis when he says, "It depends on what you look at, obviously. Even more it depends on the way that you see."

All this to say, that a move towards a traditional pattern might be a time to try to come to peace of mind with less expensive traditional steels. This is YMMV territory, but in my mind, traditional knives are tied to traditional working tools that are meant to be used, maintained and eventually worn out and decommissioned. 1095 Carbon steel has a beloved place among traditionals for a good reason. It's very tough, takes a lot of abuse and sharpens easily to a very fine edge. Unless you work in a rust factory (and some folk essentially do), I find there is tremendous pleasure in sharpening and maintaining a nice 1095 blade.

Among the stainless steels out there, I've had great luck with both Bucks older 440C and newer 420HC. Note, most folks assert that Buck's heat treatment puts there version of 420HC closer to 440C. These aren't super steels, but they're not junk.

In some sense, putting a super steel in a traditional knife is sort of like putting modern fuel injected Honda motor into an old American muscle car. Yeh, it can be done but it ain't right, if you know what I mean.
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That my friend was very well said!!!

Paul
 
Well - I think there en lies the problem... I don't know what I want yet :) I've been figuring out after looking at pages and pages of Case, Buck, Boker, Al Mar, Queen, and the various GEC brands - that there are a whole lot of different patterns (and variations on those patterns).

I'll say this - I'm not picky about the pattern - I would prefer a skinnier handle (such as the stockman, or even Tidioute's variation on the Melon Whittler called the "River Boat Gambler" (despite its length being a little longer than I'd hoped), and I don't mind some of the Castro Cuban handles. I find myself really liking the square-bolstered Congress. I think my favorite so far is the Northfield Conductor with its Bail.

The most important thing to me (aside from quality) is to have the handles in wood rather than bone (I've never been a fan of the jigged bone or stag handles - I do like some of the smooth bone, but would much prefer a prettier wood). And, I like blades other than Wharncliffe (don't mind a Wharncliffe blade in the mix, just don't want all straight edges).

Do GEC variants come up in the exchange very often? Edited - Hey, I just figured out that you guys have your own Exchange section - that explains a lot.
 
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