advice on pins

Jack142

Jack142

Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
433
Ok gang, I need some advice. I am new to knifemaking and have never used brass pins in a handle.I have used the acorn nuts. Well, I got 4 knives planned and they all have pins.
Well, I thought all I would have to do is hammer them flat. I read a article by Goddard in Blade and he does a little countersink and then Peens his rivets in.
Well here, I read a thread on a fellow who presses them in. He built his own press for 50 bucks.
Then I reread a book where the author uses a vise and washer set up to press his pins in.
So do you guys, and ladies, who build a lot more knives them me, peen them in ? Or do you press them in with a vise or a Press machine?
Also, how far out from the handle do you cut the pins before your peen or press them. I figure the expansion cant be that much. And finally, if there are any tips you got about doing em well all tips are greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jack
 
Jack,

Welcome to knifemaking. I'm not exactly sure why anyone would peen or press their pins for their handles. It makes sense that you would do this for a guard or bolsters, but I would think that you would risk splitting your handle material if you expand your pins by pressing or peening. I'm pretty positive that I don't have all of the answers, but for my handles, I use a little epoxy to hold the pins in place. Just doing that, I have had one of my wood handled knives develope a hairline crack from the pin fitting too tight and being too close to the outer perimiter of the handle. Good luck. I hope this helps.

Rick
 
Hi Jack, that was me with the press, I think. :)

I do peen or press my pins, mostly in bolsters, occasionally and very carefully in scales. Like Rick said it's very easy to split the handle material.

I use a no 31 bit for 1/8" pins and an F bit for 1/4" pins. These are just oversized enough to allow the pin to slide in without risking splitting your handles by too tight a fit. If relying on epoxy to hold the pins in place be sure to grind or file or saw some texture into the pin to give the epoxy something to grip.

Be sure your pins are clean when you're gluing up. If not, they will show a ring in your bolster material, and risk not holding in general. Just 2c, good luck! This is a great place to ask questions, these guys have led me along for quite some time now. :D

Dave
 
Peening the pins in wood is risky,it doesnt take much to crack it.
If you are using wood,ddalverson gives sound advice,make sure you rough up the pins with some really course sandpaper to give the epoxy more surface area to grab.If you are using micarta you can peen the pins quite a bit,I dont chamfer or countersink the holes,when I make neck knives with micarta handles I use nickle silver pins(they seem to be softer than brass) and cut them to where they stick out 1/16" or so on either side,peen them gently,lots of light taps with the hammer as opposed to a few strong taps.And try to use the hammer to give light glancing blows from different angles of attack rather than dead on.
Scott
 
I'll vouch for his neck knife work. it sorta ashames me to admit how much I've already beaten mine around in two weeks or so I've had it. And was planning same thing on next knife. I read same goddard book you did, I'm sure. :)
 
I've been through the same "search for wisdom" on pins. I've cracked many a handle, and found that some unpeined pins didn't hold the handles in tight enough. Its tempting to really go to town when peining. Its fine on solid materials like brass or steel bolsters, but wood and even micarta will split. I think the best way is somewhere in between.

I rough up the pins, I don't countersink the holes, but I do pein slightly to get the pins to fill the holes. I don't make them wedge in completely. I use 2-ton epoxy for fixing the handle slabs but not the pins. I find that any runny Superglue preparation will wick in extremely fast and I've never been able to detach a glued in pin without damaging the handle material. I apply a dot on the outside of the pin after peining them in place.

You can file or grind the pins back, but be careful not to overheat the pins. Brass retains heat more than steel so you need to keep it slow.

Cheers.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I am working with micarta. I am doing 2 neck knives and a boot knife for the kids and a neck knife for me.

You read so much about how people put pins in. They use differant procedures, jigs etc. I might have to play around a bit and see what might work best for me.
I had one thought, that I would put it in a vise and squeeze them a bit. Or use a punch and hammer and go real slow. I thought that might spread the pins better and with more accuracy.But well maybe I shouldn't reinvent the wheel. Just that I am not the best with a hammer. Dont want to bang up the micarta.
Does anybody use a jig to hold the knife and handles so when you peen you hit the pin from one end to the other.Thats what I think the advantage of the press is. direct pressure throught out the whole pin.
Or do you just lay it out flat as you can on some hard metal and just start peening.Doesnt the micarta get banged up a bit this way ?

Thanks again for the advice
Jack
 
peining pins in wood works better and looks classier with a backup washer. My .02.

Use a small highly polished hammer with light blows. working the end of the pin only. A heavy blow will deform or bend the pin below the surface cracking the wood. Light blows , first in center and then around the edge of the pin, light angled blows.

i have a hammer made from a ball bearing for light pins

Did I mention Light blows.
 
Hey Jack. Me not no expert, but not everyone peens handle pins. (OK attack me :p ).

Here's what I did on the last one. (Really liked it, but can't bare to do a destruction test. So, I can't tell you how strong it makes it.)

Make the pin holes in the micarta a tight fit. The hole in the steel can be too. When you are ready to glue it up turn the scale upside down and make a shallow countersink in the handle - so it is next to the blade. (I used an end mill so it is really shallow and flat, but a drill bit would work.) Do this for all the holes on both sides. Now, rough up the pin material with 180 paper (or so).

When you glue it up make sure you fill those countersinks. Put it together and clamp.

What happens? Well no matter how tight the pins in the holes, some epoxy will get in there and seal it up. Also, the cavity created by the countersink will grab the steel, handle, and pin. It ain't going anywhere. Also, the tight fit around the pin looks great.

Steve
 
Steve,
I read the way you did your pins. I like the idea. Maybe, peening pins was probably the way it had to be done years ago, but now with all this new glue and all it isnt necessary.
Thanks for the advice
Jack
 
Hello Jack

What I did on my first, and only, so far, knife was to use a large vice to carefully compress the pins. I used 5mm (about 0.2inch) diameter brazing rod from a welding supplier. It was cheap (about $0.25 for two 3 foot lengths). I drilled the paper micarta scales so that the pins would just drop through to allow space for the epoxy. I then tapered the holes to allow for the expansion of the pins. I used a round file to do this. I just stuck the file into the hole and twisted it around as if I were threading in a bolt. The resulting hole was about 1/64 inch larger on the outside face of the scales. When the pins were compressed they "filled in" the holes very nicely. I had to compress the pins a bit at a time to prevent overexpanding them and cracking the scale material around the holes.

I tried this on some scrap scale material first, then cut it open to look at the pin. The pin expanded mostly at the ends, filling in the tapered hole and left a space in the middle of the scale for epoxy.

I used a file, then hard sanding block to get the ends of the pins flush with the surface of the scales. Go slow and easy here to avoid damaging the scales. A large file or sanding block was easier to control and keep parallel to the surface of the scales.

Good luck and have fun!

Phil
 
I peen them no matter what handle material I'm doing. After taking a few (production) knives with peened pins apart, I'm convinced its the way to go. Theres a hundred different tricks you can use to make epoxy fail- cold, heat, impact etc. The expanded tip on the pin is a mechanical hold that doesn't let go, the handle material fails first.
I did manage to crack a few scales when I first started out. I've got it figured out now (knock on wood) and haven't had any problems for quite awhile. Linen micarta is tough stuff, it can take some pretty good tapping. Wood varies from one type to another, how brittle it is, how straight the grain is etc. I use about a 10 oz ball peen hammer, start off with LOTS of light taps to get things started evenly and keep the pin from bending. Once things are pulled down tight, you can give it a few firm taps to flatten things and get that last bit of expansion on the end.
 
one advantage to epoxying the pins in place is a little heat will make the handle assembly come apart. (in case something neeeded to be changed) in other words a mistake.

One of the disadvantages to using epoxy to hold the pins in place is, a liitle heat will make the handle assembly come apart.
 
Well, now I guess the thought is, " It is better to peen then not to peen" I guess thats the question.
I think I will play around and see what happens. I am going to order some extra micarta today.
It's just that I cant see hitting a 1/8 " pin on the edges without denting the micarta.
But guys all your advice is really appreciated.
Thanks
Jack
 
Chamfer the top of the hole a little bit and try to expand the head a bunch if your using 1/8" or thicker micarta. You can grind/sand things down smooth then without taking the head off the pin. It really doesn't take that much to make a huge difference either. Try drilling a hole .005" undersized and pushing a peice of pin stock through, same idea as making the end of the pin .005" bigger than the rest.
Don't worry too much about denting the micarta, its tougher than hell and you really don't have to swing the hammer that hard. Most likely thing to happen is you scratch it up on the anvil/vise, and you'll have to sand it anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top