Advice on Rawhide

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

Hello all. I am starting to dabble in leather sheaths (no rivet kydex isn't for everything), and was looking for some advice on dying rawhide, as well as using it as a wrap for knife handles. I've been testing different methods of dying, including dying before wetting, after wetting and both before and after. The Feibings red leached out very quickly when put into the water (and it was dry first), the medium brown turned green in spots and the dark brown is the most OK but still looks green in some areas. Does the rawhide need to be sealed/oiled after dying to maintain the color, and is there anything you would suggest for not having the green bleed through. I have not tried an alcohol or acetone rub first but was debating trying that to see if it helped absorb more completely. So far I have applied it with a q-tip as I am working on scraps, but would probably do multiple coats or dip/soak, also depending on advice given here.

I would like to dye and wrap a caribou handle (the brown of the wrap to offset the white as well as giving it more thickness), and have heard of the shrinking properties of rawhide, so thought that it would be a good choice for a tight wrap. I was wondering how tight it would have to be to tighten well onto the antler. My thoughts here would be to dye the "lace", then wet and tighten as much as I could as I wrapped- most likely a wrap similar to a badminton raquet (I don't know any technical names). After drying to a good degree I was wanting to add some brass or black tacks that got from Lee Valley. Making a starter hole with a drill and glue/tapping them in. My thoughts were that if I tacked them as the rawhide is drying then they might stress the rawhide- ripping it or pulling the pins out slightly. Am I on the right track or off base with my assumptions?

I was also considering what to keep the wrap tight with as it dried. On my first attempt to try wrapping with wet hide I clamped the handle and hide with little spring clamps and it left a pattern on the hide. If I wrapped the caribou handle with rawhide and took some twisted wire around to hold tight it may put the pattern into the rawhide for more character, but also may be harder to apply consistently- like a quillion twisted wire but with imprints only.

I'll keep trying on my own (I am loving trying things out for fun right now- enjoying being a rookie and doing experiments)but thought I would ask those with much more experience and have been there and messed it up before me! Any direction will be appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

 

[R.H.Clark]

I've never tried to use rawhide as a wrap.I will be watching this thread.

Is it possible to wrap it in such a way that the end is tucked back under several of the last wraps?

 

[John M Cohea]

I use a LOT of rawhide in my work, and I use deer only. Rawhide dyes best wet, but not sopping wet. Once the rawhide is pliable, blot of the excess water and dye with Fiebing's, I use dark brown mostly.The green color will appear usually after dyeing when you have worked the hide some.Re-dyeing will usually solve the color issue.You can dye the lace before you wrap your handle or after, matter of choice here, but I usually dye after it's in place. Yes you must seal the rawhide after it's in place. On handle wraps I use tung oil or boiled linseed oil, and I apply while the hide is still wet, soaks in better that way.When wrapping the handle, leave a little tail in the begining, then wrap your lace over this.When you have the handle wrapped, use an awl and tuck the tail under the last two or three wraps as suggested.Once your oil finish is dry, you can apply a light coat of super glue for added strength.If you look around on my website you will see many rawhide wrapped handles.I hope this helps, and anything else I can help with just let me know.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

Just a few clarifications if you do not mind John. You would recommend wetting the rawhide, then wrapping and dying while still damp. Do you then seal with oil at the same time, or wait for it to dry (quicker for a harder set) and then re-wet and seal? Then I assume you wait for it to dry after wiping some of it off after it gets tacky, or is it wait to dry and lightly sand or something I am oblivious to? I assume that my assumption (that makes me a double ass) of waiting to dry and then drilling starter holes and gluing in place is sound. I did find that the wet dying worked better, and less green tint was experienced then as well. I will probably work some scrap and see what happens, and was thinking today that I would use a wax resist to prevent the dye from bleeding onto the handle when re-dying to satisfaction.

I appreciate all of the help, thank you.

 

[John M Cohea]

Yes, wrap and dye while the hide is wet, then seal while still damp.No need to sand at all, at least I never do on handle wraps but you can if you like.Keep in mind that sanding will relieve some of the color.I don't know how much you intend to work with rawhde, but my video is a useful tool if you want to get a little in depth with it.Give me a call or an email if your interested in purchasing a copy.Either way good luck and hope the project turns out well!

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

Thanks John. I plan on working knives until I'm gone, but unfortunately I cannot afford bills right now so I'll have to wait on the video, I'm using HT blades and what materials I have around. I'm in the play with things phase of knifemaking so I'll keep it in mind for when things turn around. I'l make sure to post how things turn out. Thank you.

 

[Loosearrow]

I use a LOT of rawhide in my work, and I use deer only. Rawhide dyes best wet, but not sopping wet. Once the rawhide is pliable, blot of the excess water and dye with Fiebing's, I use dark brown mostly.The green color will appear usually after dyeing when you have worked the hide some.Re-dyeing will usually solve the color issue.You can dye the lace before you wrap your handle or after, matter of choice here, but I usually dye after it's in place. Yes you must seal the rawhide after it's in place. On handle wraps I use tung oil or boiled linseed oil, and I apply while the hide is still wet, soaks in better that way.When wrapping the handle, leave a little tail in the begining, then wrap your lace over this.When you have the handle wrapped, use an awl and tuck the tail under the last two or three wraps as suggested.Once your oil finish is dry, you can apply a light coat of super glue for added strength.If you look around on my website you will see many rawhide wrapped handles.I hope this helps, and anything else I can help with just let me know.

John, I see you stated that you only use deer rawhide. Do you prefer the thickest part in the neck, or the thinner portions of the hide? Are you using multiple layers? Why not thicker rawhide from cattle? I have done some braintanning in the past. After dry scraping my deer hides, I have the hide in the rawhide state prior to the braining process. It seems fairly thin to me and maybe that is why you use it so much. Do you make your own rawhide as well? I would assume the deer rawhide is easier to get with so many hunters out there. Seems like I may have heard that when making parfleches out of rawhide, they could be sealed with prickly pear cactus. Is that cocrrect? Seems like snow shoes made out of rawhide were sealed with some type of varnish, weren't they? Always admired your work. Lee Lucero "Loosarrow"

 

[John M Cohea]

John, I see you stated that you only use deer rawhide. Do you prefer the thickest part in the neck, or the thinner portions of the hide? Are you using multiple layers? Why not thicker rawhide from cattle? I have done some braintanning in the past. After dry scraping my deer hides, I have the hide in the rawhide state prior to the braining process. It seems fairly thin to me and maybe that is why you use it so much. Do you make your own rawhide as well? I would assume the deer rawhide is easier to get with so many hunters out there. Seems like I may have heard that when making parfleches out of rawhide, they could be sealed with prickly pear cactus. Is that cocrrect? Seems like snow shoes made out of rawhide were sealed with some type of varnish, weren't they? Always admired your work. Lee Lucero "Loosarrow"

Hi Loosearrow,
I only use deer because it is thinner than elk, buffalo,ect, which makes it easier to work with and sew the seams, and I use a single layer only.Beef rawhide to me is to thick, and the appearance is a little dull and "flat" looking.I use the flesh side out, as it tends to have more character and variations in color when dyed.
Prickly pear juice is a period corret type of sealer, as is hide glue.On my sheaths I use Minwax low gloss poly varnish.
And lastly, no I don't make my own rawhide.I work with a tanner in Louisiana and swap him knives for hides.Hope this answers your questions.

 

[Loosearrow]

Hi Loosearrow,
I only use deer because it is thinner than elk, buffalo,ect, which makes it easier to work with and sew the seams, and I use a single layer only.Beef rawhide to me is to thick, and the appearance is a little dull and "flat" looking.I use the flesh side out, as it tends to have more character and variations in color when dyed.
Prickly pear juice is a period corret type of sealer, as is hide glue.On my sheaths I use Minwax low gloss poly varnish.
And lastly, no I don't make my own rawhide.I work with a tanner in Louisiana and swap him knives for hides.Hope this answers your questions.

Thanks John. Appreciate the info. Made a sheath out of a dog chew years back and the tip of the blade went through the folded side of the sheath. It was a sharp knife, and I was careless. It just put me off a little. As usual, I really like your work. I just wish they had knife shows in Kansas City like they used to. One of these days I hope to meet up with you and shake your hand. Thank you for freely sharing your years of expertise. Do you use the thicker neck leather, or does it matter? Regards.

 

[John M Cohea]

I ussually use the whole hide, but if it is real thick it requires a little thinning around the edges where it will stich together.If you ever find yourself in Mississippi Loosearrow, give me a shout!

 

[Loosearrow]

I ussually use the whole hide, but if it is real thick it requires a little thinning around the edges where it will stich together.If you ever find yourself in Mississippi Loosearrow, give me a shout!

Never have been there but thanks for the invite. Would enjoy picking your brain. What do you sew the sheaths with? The copper rivets you use look homemade. Made from copper wire mashed on both ends? I will get around to making a sheath for a neck knife out of rawhide. I will contact you if I run into a snag. Thanks for your friendship. What a great forum visited by the most talented people. Do you find that rawhide scrapes the finish on the blade or handles? Regards.