Advice on Sharpening Setup

JJ_Colt45

JJ_Colt45

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Hi, I'v been looking into buying either a 3 to 4 stone set of either ...
Shapton GlassStone HR Series or ...
Naniwa Professional Stone (New Chosera) ...
I have always used Ceramic rods / Stones and Leather Stropes with various compounds. But with some of my newer knife purchases and the newer steels I'm looking to upgrade and add to my sharpening system ... I've come to these as my top choices and was hoping to get some pros and cons of both and maybe which grits and progressions would work best?
I know there are Edge Pros and Wicked Edge Systems but I've always worked free hand and hopefully can continue to do so with these new high quality stones.
I know I will need a stone holder and lapping stone and would like reccomendations on those also. I was hoping I could get a 3 stone progression that would cover most knives with some final stropping too finish ... I'm not needing a mirror polish on everything mostly a bit of a toothy edge for my needs ... with the possibility of maybe taking one or two blades to a mirror finish ... one just to know that I can and to accomplish it. And for the rare time someone asks me to sharpen something and wants that showy type edge.
Most of my knives I try to keep sharp and not need to start to from a dull as a butter knife rough edge ... but want a grit of stone that can at least get a knife in bad need of a good sharpening started and on the way as well as to maintain and take a working edge sharp knife to a great edge.
So I would love some advice and reccomendations on which stones and which progressions would work best ... and Im open to 4 stones perhaps or even a mix of each type of stone if it will provide me any benifit.
The steels will range from 1095 and 52100 up to S30V ... S35VN ... M390 ... and 3V ... and about everything in between.
Thanks in advance for any guidance and help.
JJ
 
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Shapton Glass 500, 2k, 6k. Atoma 140 diamond plate for flattening. Get some 1 micron diamond paste and a balsa strop. Pick up a sink-bridge or stone holder of your preference. That set up should run about $350 all in, maybe up to $400 depending on your choices of stone holder.

Option 2: Shapton Glass 500, 1k, 4k if you like a tighter progression and don't need to go up to the 6K.
 
I use the Atoma diamond stones for reprofile and dull knifes and then have the Shapton glass in 1, 2, 4, 8K That does everything I need from Toothy to polished edge. I use a profile system. The Shapton's have made a huge difference in my edges.
 
Thanks ... I appreciate the input ... hoping to get some more from people who use one or the other set of stones or both. I'm thinking of going with the 500 ... 2k ... and 6k and maybe add the 4k just to help ot get ready for the 6k ... its good to hear options other then the Shapton lapping stone as it costs nearly as much as the 3 or 4 sharpening stones would cost.

I have heard of but never used balsa wood for a strop ... thats an interesting idea for me I have several leather strops but that step may be just what I need to take my edges to a new level.

Thanks for your input ... please educate me more if you have anything to add ... I'm looking forward to taking my sharpening skills to the next level now that Im home and have alot more time.
 
Well, once you get into steels with over 4% Vanadium even the best waterstones start to struggle. Some do a little better than others such as the Shapton Glass but anything over 1000 grit and the problems still show its ugly head.

In my experience it seems as most people never notice these issues because the stones still sharpen the steel to a usable standard. Good enough for some but unacceptable in my eyes. Little things you will notice, coarser stones that typically leave a dull finish will start to polish, stones will be incredibly slow, and final sharpness will be lacking the crisp apex you find with your "regular" steels. These are all signs that the Vanadium carbides are not being cut by the stone.

That said, when steels start reaching 4% or higher Vanadium content I switch to diamond plates. The Coarse DMT followed by a firm strop coated in 1 micron diamond compound provides one of the best EDC edges IMO. Less toothy than you would imagine but also much sharper than you would expect from such grits.

For lower alloy steels I still prefer waterstones, the steels at this level do not need the power of diamonds and diamonds tend to chew up lower alloy steels. This leaves a ragged edge and makes the sharpening more difficult than needed. Waterstones are "softer" on the edge and produce a very crisp and clean apex.

Now for the stones,

The first two I would recommend are the Atoma 140 and DMT Coarse. The Atoma is ideal to flatten waterstones and makes quick work of damaged blades with its aggressive cutting. The DMT Coarse can be used as a stepping stone to waterstones removing the coarser Atoma scratches and allowing easier transition to your waterstones. It is also a standalone sharpening stone for high alloy steels.

For waterstones I would recommend the Shapton Glass 500 and 2000. These are recommended by Shapton and are the unicorn stones of this line. They are very good and probably my favorite stones. If you want to add a finer stone go with the 4k Glass, awesome feel and awesome edges, easily one of the best finishing stones out there.
 
I appreciate you leaving a post Jason ... those are things I want and need to learn. I can keep my older knives sharp but with some of the newer ones with the more difficult to sharpen steels I know I need to upgrade my equipment and learn what works best.
So I think Ill go with some Shapton over the Chosera and pick up the Atoma for lapping and the DMT coarse and use those to work on blades in bad shape or to set angles on what I need to.
Im looking forward to trying these out. Thanks everyone for your responses ... hopefully wo't be too huge a learning curve to get how these newer steels respond ... hopefully the stones will give good feedback to let me know where Im at.
And maybe try the balsa strop and compare it to a tight firm leather strop for finishing.
 
Balsa is handy as a stropping substrate for several reasons. 1 - It's cheap. You can get a 12" x 3" x 2" block of balsa from Midwest Products for about $7, and it can usually be found at local hobby or craft stores cheaper than that. That'a a nice big chunk of wood, about ideal size for working with a wide range of knives up to larger kitchen knives. You can use it as is, or glue non-stick rubber mats to it, or attach it to a heavier wood if you like.

It's firm, but not completely rigid, and the surface is soft enough for the diamonds to embed into it pretty well. If the surface gets worn or scratched up, it's easy to just sand off the top layer and apply more compound if needed. I've been using one for over a year and have not yet reapplied compound though it's getting close to needing the surface refreshed a bit.

The cost comes from the compounds, of course, but you can get a decent amount of 1 micron diamond paste for about $15 that will last quite a while. There are other options as well. I have some old Hand American diamond spray that I am still working through, which I believe is no longer being made.
 
Jason B. said:
Well, once you get into steels with over 4% Vanadium even the best waterstones start to struggle. Some do a little better than others such as the Shapton Glass but anything over 1000 grit and the problems still show its ugly head.

In my experience it seems as most people never notice these issues because the stones still sharpen the steel to a usable standard. Good enough for some but unacceptable in my eyes. Little things you will notice, coarser stones that typically leave a dull finish will start to polish, stones will be incredibly slow, and final sharpness will be lacking the crisp apex you find with your "regular" steels. These are all signs that the Vanadium carbides are not being cut by the stone.

That said, when steels start reaching 4% or higher Vanadium content I switch to diamond plates. The Coarse DMT followed by a firm strop coated in 1 micron diamond compound provides one of the best EDC edges IMO. Less toothy than you would imagine but also much sharper than you would expect from such grits.

For lower alloy steels I still prefer waterstones, the steels at this level do not need the power of diamonds and diamonds tend to chew up lower alloy steels. This leaves a ragged edge and makes the sharpening more difficult than needed. Waterstones are "softer" on the edge and produce a very crisp and clean apex.

Now for the stones,

The first two I would recommend are the Atoma 140 and DMT Coarse. The Atoma is ideal to flatten waterstones and makes quick work of damaged blades with its aggressive cutting. The DMT Coarse can be used as a stepping stone to waterstones removing the coarser Atoma scratches and allowing easier transition to your waterstones. It is also a standalone sharpening stone for high alloy steels.

For waterstones I would recommend the Shapton Glass 500 and 2000. These are recommended by Shapton and are the unicorn stones of this line. They are very good and probably my favorite stones. If you want to add a finer stone go with the 4k Glass, awesome feel and awesome edges, easily one of the best finishing stones out there.
Click to expand...
Jason, You really have to try some diamond waterstones they would be perfect for you
get the Venev ones from russia sold by gritomatic

they have a 8x3 combo stone if you email them.

I don't think they are for everyone, but I know they will work great for what you like.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Jason, You really have to try some diamond waterstones they would be perfect for you
get the Venev ones from russia sold by gritomatic

they have a 8x3 combo stone if you email them.

I don't think they are for everyone, but I know they will work great for what you like.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking of getting one of the 6 or 8k ones specifically for microbevelling. The 1k is probably nice to have as well, but at the finer end of the spectrum is where it becomes critical when working high Vanadium steels. If the diamond waterstones don't have the same drawbacks that Jason mentioned, they would be a nice blanket solution for every steel type.
 
View attachment 755856 My Shaptons start at 220 and go to 30000 in these increments: 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000. I use the 140 Atoma to dress the 220. All others get dressed with the Shapton Glass Lapping Plate. I work over the rubber pond using the rubber brick for stone dressing. Then I put my homemade jig over the pond to sharpen by hand. A spray bottle wets the stones for lubrication. For most knives, a regimen of 220, 500, 1000, and 2000 produces a very useful edge.
 
^ Have you attempted 500 straight to 2000? Do you find the time spent on 1000 before moving to 2000 produces a target finish faster than refining on 2000 alone?
 
I have not attempted the 500-2000 jump on this set up, but I have noticed from other sharpening set ups and polishing metallurgical specimens that it does not pay to skip intermediate steps. In that situation, you are removing coarse scratches with too fine a stone. This lengthens the process.
 
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