Advice please. Sharpening tools and techniques.

[Mike DeAmicis]

I'm sorry for my first post being me begging for help. But I have learned to take advantage of the knowledge of others and that getting to the point os usually best.

I have been trying to teach myself to put an edge on a knife and I'm starting to get the hang of it. Now as a helicopter power train systems technician, jet engine mechanic and atomic spetrometry lab supervisor, I understand the importance of the right tools and knowing how to use them properly. I have over time acquired a few diferent sharpening impliments. I have the pocket diamond rod with the taper on one end for serrations. I have the little pocket tool with the carbide wedges and ceramic wheels and the little diamond rod. I have had those for quite awhile but my most recent tool is a work sharp filed sharpener I got at Bass pro a couple years ago. I am kind of clumsy with the rod type and can only achieve what I'm sure you'd consider a mediocre edge. The wedges and wheels seem to work better for me but I'd like to be able to put a good and sharp, durable edge on a working knife. The work sharp field sharpener is working pretty good for me after some rescent dedication to learning the technique on my part. But I'm really hoping for some guidance on what's the best tool and technique for edge maintenance on pocket knifes and larger fixed blade knives of the hunting and camping varieties. Welcome bonuses would be one tool for all knives and even hatchets and stuff like that.

As for the knives I use? I like em all. My first knife was a buck pocket folder my aunt gave me for my 7th or 8th birthday. I use ALL of my blades hard. I am not a collector but I have a a couple dozen. I carry mostly kershaw lately because I have rediscovered them and like the value and how they have been collaborating so well. I think they have really raised the bar for affordable pocket knives. My most carried knives are the Kershaw 0303 or the select fire which is my current for the last 6 months or so. But I like to carry a few of the newer Camillus folders. I have a few field knives. Sog kukuri, Gerber infantry, the ka bar. navy I was issued in 1994, newer ka bar in 1095 and most recently, cold steel leatherneck in D2. I also have 2 daughters eleven and twelve who each have their own small collection of varied quality to maintain. I do have serrated blades but favor them less and less for better steel blades with a good edge. So as you can see I have varied blade styles of multiple steel types. I. would love to have just one sharpener that I can use at home and then easily take in the field. I know a bench top will make it easier to but the finest edge on a blade. But I want working edges that last reasonably and can be touched up as needed at home and away.

In your collective experience, can I expect to accomplish this with the field sharpener that I have now? Is the a better option? Should I be trying harder to learn the control to use pocket rods and if so what's the best? Do I have unreasonable expectations in wanting one tool knowing I don't expect a shaving edge, but a good working edge? I really appreciate any advice. I know I can search but I really don't know where to start. I have bad luck finding what I'm looking for with the search tools. And there is a lot to dig through. Plus, I don't won't to think myself around in circles trying to discern left from right in the long conversations. So please help me out. In the meantime I will still try to dig around. Everyone gets lucky sometimes right?

 

[Wowbagger]

See the yellow stickies at the start of this Maintenance forum.

That said . . . first off I am addicted to polished seriously sharp edges BUT I carry this sharpening emergency kit most of the time where ever I go but especially to work. With it I sharpen anything from a box knife blade to scissors to cobalt drill bits and carbide tipped cutting tools. Mostly I sharpen my pocket knives when I get home and use an Edge Pro guided sharpener with Shapton stones.

These little colored paddles will do what you are wanting to do. For sure.

Well for your big knives you will want larger stones but can you see yourself carrying one or more with you into the field ? ? ?
Probably not . . . so this is your light weight get by kit. Can fit in a shirt pocket (not that I carry mine there).

The colors represent a different diamond grit size. To fix a chipped blade as quickly as possible one would want the green one which is extra coarse. To get a very dull blade going again the black one is less coarse and makes a finer edge. Still the blue one is what you would normally want to take a somewhat dull edge back to shave sharp. With time and skill I suppose you can get pretty much shave sharp with the coarser ones but they do eat metal off your nice knives and finer stones might allow your blades to last longer.

I use the little file on softer blades such as a woodworking paddle bit or putty knife and I just use it to smooth things that aren't edge tools. There is a sharpening steel in there . . . you don't need that and there is a round diamond file.

To this kit I plan to add a half of a Spyderco Ultra Fine ceramic triangular rod. I wanted it today and didn't have one with me because the full size one is kind of large to carry around and might get broken.

When sharpening it is important to visualize microscopically what effect the "stone" is having on the edge and I think where most people go wrong is they fail to cut back the steel behind the edge with a coarse stone before using a fine or ultra fine stone just on the very edge only a couple of thousandths wide bevel. In other words make a shallower angle on the steel behind the edge with the coarse stone and a slightly steep angle only a degree or two steeper right on the edge with the finer stone. That would be an in the field technique. At home I like to use the finer stones on the shallower edge for looks but still go a touch steeper right on the edge.

I hope that makes sense. Part of the key to sharpening is not to let the edge get VERY dull ever and to sharpen lightly and often. Once it gets VERY dull you need much coarser stones to cut the bevels fast enough to get the edge sharp again in a timely manner.

In other words it is no fun to use just one stone for every thing and especially major edge repair.



PS: also I like a jeweler's visor like this so I can see what is happening on the edge after each flurry with a stone or paddle. Yes I have one at work and a few at home and a microscope just for fun.



PPS: I think the problem most people have with sharpening is they don't go coarse enough to start and then they fail to go super light and steeper with a finer stone to finish.

 

[Mike DeAmicis]

Thanks wowbagger, what you say makes a lot of sense. And that's a neat kit you put together. It's a little more comprehensive than the field sharper I am using now. It has 2 diamond bars, course and fine, and a multi surface ceramic rod, course, find and grooved for fish hooks. There is a small section of narrow ceramic for serrations as well as a strip of stropping leather. The plates are held on by magnets and the core is hollow and you could store some buffing compound in there. All sharpening surfaces have fixed 20 degree guides and it's the size of a candy bar. It's kind of like the Leatherman of sharpening tools. Not top of the line but versitile in capable hands. I do wonder how the diamond plates will hold up against the harder steels I am starting to lean towards.

 

[Wowbagger]

work sharp field sharpener

I didn't know what that was so I looked it up.

For me 20° is too steep let alone 25°
The handles on my paddles are really handy. The very thin nature of the steel plates with diamond grit on them let me get into areas the Work Sharp could only dream of.

PS: as far as sharpening an axe and a pocket knife with the same tool the first thing that came to mind is a small electric powered angle grinder. That way you have what is known as surface feet per minute . . . lots of it for the axe . . . very little of it for the knife.

Just barely spin up the abrasive disc and let is coast with the power off for the knife and faster for the axe. Got to keep them very cool though and be careful. Oh and camping you need to pack in a generator unit.

I am kind of tongue and cheek here but really it would work great too. See the flap discs for angle grinders Pretty impressive invention.

 

[Wowbagger]

I do wonder how the diamond plates will hold up against the harder steels I am starting to lean towards.

If the diamond plates are well made they are the most desirable thing for the job. See the thread on sharpening high hardness and high wear steel alloys in this forum. Not really my thing when it comes to real knives but the bros tell me they CAN NOT BE BEAT.

Interesting the sharpener you have is more versatile than I thought on first blush. Sounds like you only need some practice and you have what you need.

Once you can post photos, I think there is a sticky to say how to do that, I would enjoy seeing a photo or two of it apart and in action.

 

[HeavyHanded]

But I'm really hoping for some guidance on what's the best tool and technique for edge maintenance on pocket knifes and larger fixed blade knives of the hunting and camping varieties. Welcome bonuses would be one tool for all knives and even hatchets and stuff like that...

... Do I have unreasonable expectations in wanting one tool knowing I don't expect a shaving edge, but a good working edge? I really appreciate any advice. I know I can search but I really don't know where to start. I have bad luck finding what I'm looking for with the search tools. And there is a lot to dig through. Plus, I don't won't to think myself around in circles trying to discern left from right in the long conversations. So please help me out. In the meantime I will still try to dig around. Everyone gets lucky sometimes right?

It will be difficult to find one tool that will take care of everything. A 6" combination benchstone of some sort (Norton Crystalon) would be the most handy as it can be used offhand on larger tools and work well on a bechtop. A puck is a better choice for hatchets and such but is not as nice for small knives. A puck, a benchstone, and some sort of hard strop for finishing edges off and the odd touch-up.

If you use a silicon carbide combination stone with oil, the grit can be reclaimed as a stropping compound, smeared on a sheet of paper wrapped around the same stone, and you have everything you need. This will give you a good working edge if not a darn nice one. I can get a chisel sharp enough to cleanly shave endgrain pine and leave the surface with a "wet" look - not the gold standard, but one a lot of casual woodworkers use as gauge of a "sharp enough" edge.

I demo the method of reclaiming grit in one of the videos on my website, linked below - is about as minimalist as you can get. I sell a sharpening block that is a full service unit - is not as portable perhaps as what you're looking for, but the videos and user manual might give you a better idea of how to strategize a sharpening/maintenance scheme. The user videos also demo plenty of useful freehand tips applicable to whatever you wind up with and also the field sharpener you currently use, which is not a bad piece of gear in its own right.

 

[Mike DeAmicis]

I didn't know what that was so I looked it up.
I am kind of tongue and cheek here but really it would work great too. See the flap discs for angle grinders Pretty impressive invention.

I have a flap grinder actually. If you'd be so kind as to get the geni we're all set.

I'll see about posting some pics of the field sharpener taken apart. I have applied some of the information here to practice on my pocket knives and kitchen knives and I'm already seeing a night and day diference. Burning the edge is like how did I not know that because is makes so much sense when looking at it as a mechanic. I am gonna goof off with some cheaper pocket knives to try and get my freehand skills up. Being able to hold a consistent angle would open up my options since I would not be bound to the guided systems. Then a couple combo stones would cover all my bases and a hunk of leather and some paste are minimal additions.

 

[jc57]

Mike - I have a suggestion. Go ahead and spend the time learning how to freehand sharpen. Especially with your background as a mechanic, it should come easily to you as the little "aha" moments will be logical and obvious.

Once you can free-hand, then pretty much the entire world becomes your sharpening tool. Literally anything abrasive that is harder than the steel of your knife.

Then you can piece together your field kit out of whatever makes sense for the usage you have in mind. You can get pocket sized stones/hones in many materials, including credit-card sized diamonds, pocket ceramics, Arkansas stones, diamond or ceramic "dog-bone" rods for your field kit. Or use a river rock, brick, coffee mug, toilet tank lid, top of a car window, etc.

A basic combo bench stone to get you started should be under $30, thereabouts. I like the Norton IB8 combo India myself, which is about $22, plus a $5 can of oil and you're set. Make a strop out of a piece of hard leather glued to wood and some $3 green buffing compound from the hardware store. Good set for learning, and still useful later on after you have graduated. If you have harder steels, you could substitute the Norton JB8 Crystolon combo stone, which you will guaranteed not outgrow because good SiC stone always has a place in your kit.

Freehanding is one of those skills that is easy to learn, but takes a long time to master. By that, I mean once you get the basics down, you can get sharp edges, but it is a continuous learning process and you can keep improving (or not, depending on how much time/effort you want to invest). If you're already good with your hands, it won't take long until they learn how to do it. A lot of it is muscle memory and the feel and feedback of the steel on the stone.

 

[Mike DeAmicis]

Mike - I have a suggestion. Go ahead and spend the time learning how to freehand sharpen. Especially with your background as a mechanic, it should come easily to you as the little "aha" moments will be logical and obvious.

Once you can free-hand, then pretty much the entire world becomes your sharpening tool. Literally anything abrasive that is harder than the steel of your knife.

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I have been sort of coming around to this conclusion while reading around this place. The work sharp filed sharpener I have is helping me a lot now that I have a better understanding of the fundamentals. And the guids are helping with that muscle memory as well. I think using it regularly for awhile will be a good way to get that angle down and move into freehand. I have atempted freehand so many times over the course of my life. But I have never known anyone good at it to learn from before now. Got to love the interewebs.

 

[Mike DeAmicis]

Took the plunge today and ordered some stones to start laying waste to the kitchen knives. Maybe some day soon I can be a wicked sharpsmith.