Advice: Retention & Maintenance?

Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
5,782
Looking for advice on both sharpening and maintenance of the edge. I'm particularly interested in sharpening/maintenance strategies such as convex vs 'V' bevel, toothy vs polished, back beveling, edge angle, stropping vs steels and am less interested in specific products or methods. The question is more about what the edge should look like and less about how to get there, at least at this point.

Knives in question: Opinel Inox (Sandvik 12C27) and Opinel Carbone (X90C).

Uses: Camp craft (making shavings, feather sticks), Whittling, Yard work (bend cutting brush, cutting out dead plants), Shop work (cardboard boxes, tape, cutting plastic), Food prep.

Problems: I've had problems with really fast and noticeable edge fade on the Inox blades. Would like to get through a week-end backpacking trip without needing to reach for a stone but when you can't cut through summer sausage easily... On Carbones, I'm burning through the blade by resharpening too frequently. Again, edge fades quickly and stropping alone isn't enough to bring it back.
 
Just to get the ball rolling, and for additional clarity about your situation, a few questions:

  • How coarse/fine are your edges right now?
  • What are you using to sharpen/strop/maintain them?
  • How thin are they (factory edge, or re-bevelled, or taken to zero grind, etc.)?

Just off the top of my head, I tend to believe that thinner apex geometry can sometimes make up for loss of 'tooth' or 'bite' in an edge, and extend the useful life of a slicing edge for food chores and such things. A relatively wide edge angle (>30 inclusive) can get 'dull' pretty fast, after the apex rounds a bit, or if the teeth get scrubbed away. If I were seeing an edge fade fast like you've described, I'd be looking at the edge geometry first. Obviously, things like burrs/wire edges that aren't fully cleaned up can also do this (I'm thinking you already know this, and have accounted for that).

The flipside, if the edge geometry is TOO thin, obviously edge rolling/chipping may be an issue as well.


David
 
David, as always, thanks for responding.

Sharpening system is a Lansky. Basic stones: course, medium, fine.

Strop is leather belt on wood backing with green compound.

On both blades, I set a back bevel at 17 degrees with the Lansky (I assume this means 34 inclusive?).

On the Inox, I set the primary bevel at 20 degrees with the Lansky (40 inclusive?).

On the Carbone, I add an additional bevel at 25 degrees, as in heavy cutting I've been able see edge bending.

On the strop, I tend to err on keeping the blade too flat with (I dunno) ?moderate? pressure. Tests with sharpies on the edge convince me this reaches the apex.

Very recently, I've started to play around with the idea of a bend rod to create a convex bevel as I just don't trust my skill with your edge trailing technique on wet/dry. I also don't have enough time in the day to commit to what I'm sensing is more active edge development/maintenance down that path. I'm hoping that by modifying my use of the Lansky, I can get longer lasting results. But I'm detouring in methods and away from goals.
 
With the Lansky clamp, the set angle markings are in reference to the measured angle at the immediate front edge of the clamp (where reaching/touching a blade edge would be impossible anyway). So, I'm betting your edge angles will be somewhat less, depending on how far the blade edge extends beyond the front of the clamp. As a point of reference, I've figured out that a blade edge extending ~3/8" or so beyond the front edge of the clamp will sharpen up to approx. 15°/side, when using the '17' setting. Think of the main spear blade on a Victorinox SAK; that's what I used as my reference, to figure that out. The other set angles at 20/25/30 will also be correspondingly more acute than stated, with similar blade positioning. BTW, yes, the settings marked on the clamp are the 'per side' angles, so the inclusive would be 2X the setting used.

I've always found it trickier to safely strop a V-bevelled edge on any leather, without incurring some edge rounding in the process. More so on a very thin blade, with a very narrow bevel, as would be seen on the Opinel at typical edge angles (30-40° inclusive). This is what drove me to sandpaper thinning, zero-grinding and convexing my Opinels, with the lower 1/2 of the blade (more or less) laid flush to the sanding surface. I found it much easier to keep everything steady that way, and also easier to regulate pressure. This last point (pressure) is also the biggest factor in burr/wire formation, as I see it, and I've seldom had any remaining issues with burrs/wires getting in the way, using a flush trailing stroke on the Opinel blades.

May sound strange, but with V-bevelled edges (all of mine, actually), I've found it easier to strop them lightly on a leather belt used as a hanging strop (barber style). I like this method, because it's harder to press too hard into the leather this way. The leather doesn't compress or roll tightly around the edge as happens with a hard-backed leather strop. Still want to keep the angle conservatively low, as the belt will want to 'bend' or deflect away from the blade a bit during the stroke (maintain tension on the belt with your free hand). Combined with a light skimming pressure, I've found it a great way to clean up the fine burrs on my Opi's (both INOX and Carbone), and retain the 'bite' that I like in the edge. Sometimes, prior to that, I'll use a balsa block with green compound, or another one with SiC 600-grit, if I think the edge will benefit from it. I rarely use the sandpaper to maintain them anymore, unless they get dinged up.

I know you're not comfortable with the edge-trailing sharpening yet, but I'd still encourage you to keep working with that, even if it's only with some more 'expendable' blades. I really believe it's the perfect technique for the Opinel's thin convex grind; just seems like the stropping/trailing technique was tailor-made for it. Take a thin and flat- or convex-ground blade (roughly comparable to the Opinel) and lay it flat to the paper (over a firm backing like wood), then lay the pad of your index finger alongside the blade to feel the flush contact underneath it. Then 'strop' the blade held this way on the paper, and see how the edge begins to take shape. That's essentially how I started getting acquainted with the trailing technique, by essentially just sanding the lower 1/2 or 1/3 of a few blades, making sure to keep the edge flush to the paper as I worked. If there's a V-bevel on it, some time will be needed to work the shoulders of it away, until the flush contact extends all the way to the cutting edge.

All of the above are just some ideas that come to mind right now. I'm still knocking a few things around in my head, to see if I can suggest something else that may also be helpful (if any of this is, to begin with :)).


David
 
David, it may be a character flaw or learning disability on my part but I need to grok the goal before getting too far along on the how.

So, I'm having a hard time understanding the technique and if it's for me since I'm not sure what the ideal final outcome will be. If at all possible, it would be super helpful to keep as much of the discussion (at first) on facts about the shape and character of the edge and blade to get most durability and blade life out of these knives. After that, I think I'll be better positioned to discuss techniques in more detail.

Here are some more concrete questions.

Given that I work with wood a lot, sometimes quite harshly, to I understand correctly that a convex edge (not grind, but edge) will be more durable than a 'V' edge as it will a) put more metal behind the apex and b) have a rounder side profile which will allow it to roll out of twisting jams more easily instead of rolling or chipping the apex?

Which edge profile (not grind, but edge) is more durable as the apex abrades away: convex or 'V' or 'V' with micro bevel?

What apex angle is more durable as the apex abrades away (given my routine cutting, described above)? Related, all things being equal, is thinner more durable? (This is counter to conventional wisdom, no?)

How does blade grind (hollow, flat, convex) affect edge durability? Related, why would one mix and match the various grinds (hollow, flat, convex) with the different edge profiles (convex, micro-bevel 'V', straight 'V')?

I'm dying to ask toothy vs polished but googling on this site has convinced me that question is a religious issue!! :eek:
 
I'm more of a contrarian than on superstitious band wagon. If this a retention competition per op's criterias, I would enter with this edge geometry:
30* convex on the right side (edge view from the handle), 5* on the left. Sharpened 320 grit. Use balanced-strop with 5lbs pressure at angle minus 5*, to mostly remove coarseness on the side and tiny convexing at apex. Smooth scallop edge asymmetric edge for right-hander. OK, this is 'WHAT' I'll use. Leaving 'WHY' for you & others, since my arms falled-off from too much hand waving before :rolleyes:
 
You used the words "quite harshly". Is it possible that you are expecting too much from these knives? I know that my carbon Opinel doesn't display amazing edge stability, that is, when I use it for carving it has some edge roll. Edge roll is, of course, vastly more welcome than chipping.

Perhaps you'd benefit from a knife that has a little more hardness to it.

Davids advice is sound and thorough as always, that can always be counted.

For any thin bladed knife, especially an Opinel, I simply zero edge it with wet/dry. It's a very slight convex from spine to the edge achieved by edge trailing the entire blade.

I'll try to post some pics later.
 
I guess the one thing that comes to my mind, when I hear the "What's more durable?" question asked, is "What's the edge expected to do?" in terms of cutting, assuming it's 'durable' enough to retain it's basic geometry to avoid rolling/chipping. Reason I mention this is, if the edge is durable, but rather thick or wide in terms of it's geometry, will it actually cut very well? This is basically what Buck Knives asked themselves, in eventually making a change to a thinner edge grind on their blades. I think they went to a 13-16°/side spec as part of their 'Edge2000' change on newer-generation knives. They did this, because they realized the thinner geometry behind the edge contributed to the real usefulness (and cutting life) of the cutting edge more than the thickness or wide geometry of the edge apex itself. That's why I tend to believe (also) that a somewhat thinner edge grind will extend the useful life of the edge, even as the apex itself may abrade away fairly quickly.

I don't worry too much about whether a V-edge or convex edge is more/less durable than the other. In most of my uses anyway, it's basically a wash. I like convex mainly for two reasons: 1.) Minimal friction in thicker material being cut, and... 2.) Ease of maintenance, using a stropping technique in all aspects, from beginning to end. To some limited extent, I think the minimal friction aspect of a thin convex (and better, if polished) helps at least a little, in minimizing wear/tear on the edge itself. That might contribute to durability, somewhat. But, even if not, any other differences in durability I think are more an issue of the steel itself being able to support a thin edge, and less about the shape of the edge itself.

To me, the overall blade grind (flat, hollow, convex) is more about how effectively it'll cut for a given use, and less about how durable the edge will be. Hollow grinds are great at food-slicing chores (meats, fruits, etc.), convex are said to be at their best for chopping chores, and flat grinds probably fall somewhere between those two (also likely the cheapest to manufacture).

There's sort of a contradiction (to me), or at least a very fine line, in trying to make an edge more durable for things like woodworking/bushcrafting, perhaps by using somewhat thicker geometry (in either V- or convex), and still hoping to retain enough sharpness to make it effective for fine-slicing tasks on food and such. Especially if using steels that may not be the most wear-resistant, as is the case with the Opinels. The one thing that would concern me with those is, if I used the blade for some heavy cutting on wood and such, I'd more or less expect that it'll need frequent touching up to keep the fine-slicing edge in shape anyway, regardless of what the edge is shaped to be (V or convex). That has more to do with the rather thin nature of the Opi blades themselves, as well as the steel used, and less about the finished edge grind. Even from the factory, there's not a lot of steel behind the edge bevel anyway, on Opinels. It enhances their reputation as fine slicers, primarily, but it also limits how much lateral stresses they'll take at the edge, without doing some damage.

Bottom line, a crisp apex on an Opinel is going to abrade fairly quickly, no matter what, if used in more abrasive cutting tasks. That's about the steel itself, in this case. To me, the bigger difference in longer-term usefulness comes down to thinning the steel behind the apex, which at least will leave the overall edge profile not as 'blunt' after the fine apex is gone. And with the steel in these blades particularly, I personally prefer a higher finish with less coarse 'teeth' which, again because of the relative lack of abrasion-resistance, will abrade away fairly fast anyway. When that happens, again you're left with the geometry behind the edge doing all the work.

Lots of interesting questions and food for thought here. :thumbup:


David
 
Last edited:
I guess the one thing that comes to my mind, when I hear the "What's more durable?" question asked, is "What's the edge expected to do?" in terms of cutting, assuming it's 'durable' enough to retain it's basic geometry to avoid rolling/chipping. Reason I mention this is, if the edge is durable, but rather thick or wide in terms of it's geometry, will it actually cut very well? This is basically what Buck Knives asked themselves, in eventually making a change to a thinner edge grind on their blades. I think they went to a 13-16°/side spec as part of their 'Edge2000' change on newer-generation knives. They did this, because they realized the thinner geometry behind the edge contributed to the real usefulness (and cutting life) of the cutting edge more than the thickness or wide geometry of the edge apex itself. That's why I tend to believe (also) that a somewhat thinner edge grind will extend the useful life of the edge, even as the apex itself may abrade away fairly quickly.

David

^ Good insight into this topic.
Personally I've found the 12C27 to do very well with a fine inclusive edge and a fairly high polish. This steel (for me) exhibits somewhat coarse cutting qualities into some very fine abrasive ranges, and holds a good edge at 6k JWS or upwards of 2k ANSI. When it comes to hard work on wood, I swear by a fine edge at a fairly thin grind - if it starts to chip, increase the inclusive. If doing hard work on hardwood, be ready to touch up often. There is a point where prep time exceeds functional work time, and a coarser more convenient treatment might be in order even if it isn't the best strategy in a perfect world. For backpacking, it should handle a weekend trip but maybe is getting choked with pine sap or similar? This happens to me frequently. I started using an alcohol stove and wipe off the blade with some of my "fuel" (denatured alcohol) to help it out - makes a difference. Now, even if I'm bringing a different stove, I still bring a small bottle of alcohol for fire starter, hand cleaner, blade cleaner etc.

Also, for outdoor work I find the edge doesn't care about specific qualities so much - coarse, medium, or fine is all - edge subtleties are lost on an outdoor edge and all that's left are general cutting tendencies - draw cut, pressure cut. Hard use "bushcraft", a fine edge works better. Skinning game - a toothier edge usually better. IMHO its the inverse of a man-made world where cutting manufactured textiles, synthetics, etc tend toward a grabbier edge - in the woods I prefer a polished edge. In either case, grind it as thin as it can take without failure, maybe 26-30 inclusive. I would think 34-40 inclusive is too broad in any event but experimentation would need to back that up.

I cannot speak to the Opinel carbon steel, but in general I have gotten great results stropping on a hard surface or edge trailing on a fine sandpaper for maintenance, limiting the amount of steel removed. This is dependent on the type of edge you like (oh no, not toothy vs polished!) but its true. Edge prep will have some influence on the amount of steel removed per touchup.
 
I'm more of a contrarian than on superstitious band wagon. If this a retention competition per op's criterias, I would enter with this edge geometry:
30* convex on the right side (edge view from the handle), 5* on the left. Sharpened 320 grit. Use balanced-strop with 5lbs pressure at angle minus 5*, to mostly remove coarseness on the side and tiny convexing at apex. Smooth scallop edge asymmetric edge for right-hander. OK, this is 'WHAT' I'll use. Leaving 'WHY' for you & others, since my arms falled-off from too much hand waving before :rolleyes:


<flap, flap>

Bluntcut, I think you and "virtuovice" on YouTube are thinking along the same lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYJFh7ikzbY

(right or wrong, I love this guy's videos. super entertaining in a calm way.)
 
<flap, flap>

Bluntcut, I think you and "virtuovice" on YouTube are thinking along the same lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYJFh7ikzbY

(right or wrong, I love this guy's videos. super entertaining in a calm way.)

Stay true to my contrarian self.

After a fast watched of Virtuovice's video. He mostly talked about an optimal steering geometry per cutting medium. My proposed geometry is about protecting the apex from impact - i.e. better retention. Sure my geometry would have more severe steer to the right and counting on the convex chest to take the brunt of the impact. Essentially the apex job is to separate/fracture the medium and the bevel face handles the rest - including the most destructive unwanted lateral force when the edge exit the medium.
 
Strigamort, David and HeavyHanded,

Sounds like you all are roughly in agreement. Let me parrot back what I think I'm hearing to see if I got it correct.

In terms of a sharpening end goal (and setting aside questions of technique) I should be looking to achieve (in decreasing order of importance):
+ Edge angle as thin as the steel will support with target of 30 inclusive or less (thinner with the harder 12C27 than the softer Carbone).
+ Thin (convex or flat) grind behind the edge.
+ Convex edge (but 'V' is ok too)
+ Polished edge (but course is ok too)

In terms of maintenance (and getting a bit into questions of technique) I should be looking to use a method that:
+ Minimizes material removal
+ Tends towards maintaining a convex blade grind and convex edge

I'll have some additional questions on techniques after this but want to first ensure I'm on the right path, goal-wise.

Thanks again for taking the time on this. It's very helpful.
 
Strigamort, David and HeavyHanded,

Sounds like you all are roughly in agreement. Let me parrot back what I think I'm hearing to see if I got it correct.

In terms of a sharpening end goal (and setting aside questions of technique) I should be looking to achieve (in decreasing order of importance):
+ Edge angle as thin as the steel will support with target of 30 inclusive or less (thinner with the harder 12C27 than the softer Carbone).
+ Thin (convex or flat) grind behind the edge.
+ Convex edge (but 'V' is ok too)
+ Polished edge (but course is ok too)

In terms of maintenance (and getting a bit into questions of technique) I should be looking to use a method that:
+ Minimizes material removal
+ Tends towards maintaining a convex blade grind and convex edge

I'll have some additional questions on techniques after this but want to first ensure I'm on the right path, goal-wise.

Thanks again for taking the time on this. It's very helpful.

:thumbup:
That's what I'd be shooting for, pretty much on all counts. In fact, it basically describes what I've been doing with most of my knives anyway. :)

With 'polished' or not, I think you have some flexibility in what you think works best for you. If you notice quite a lot of friction in cutting wood or cardboard or other tougher materials, a more polished finish helps with that. In the manner that I maintain my own knives, almost all of mine eventually end up with something beyond an 800+ grit finish anyway, and I've been pretty happy with that.


David
 
I think you've definitely got a grasp on the basics. Obviously, from reading posts and threads from some of our friends here, there are some complex thoughts on every aspect of sharpening, maintenance and grinds (and everything else). I think a lot of the more complex stuff is fantastic to think about and experiment with. I do it, maybe not to the extent that others do, but I absolutely find it fascinating. In any case, for my own real world uses, I find a point of diminishing returns as you progress into the more abstract idealism and practices. I hope that makes sense.

As aside, for wood cutting and carving (I have several dedicated carvers) I find that, assuming you stay away from things like knots and very dirty wood and the like, a polished acute edge is ideal. Some of my carvers are VERY acute. High hardness carbon steel, I find can carefully be maintained nearly indefinitely with stropping alone.

If you'd like, email me your address and I'll send you some stropping compound that my favorite hand made carving knife maker formulates just for this purpose.
 
Some great and very learned advice here

Would like to get through a week-end backpacking trip without needing to reach for a stone

May I suggest to constantly maintain the edge
Yes to carry a small Extra Fine diamond stone, and run a few licks after each use to maintain the edge.
I don't even strop on my belt
There is no wear and tear on the blade and it stays sharp

I carry and use the little DMT EF Mini-Sharp folding
The EZ Lap EF with the handle broken off is even lighter (as per Carl Jackknife)
 
Ok... My brain got left at the office this week. Anybody else have a job that does that?

I'm ready, I think, to talk about the how. But only in small doses.


I'm trying to get my head around the different approaches to sharpening and maintaining, but in terms of what they do to the apex and how much material they remove. All of these as ways to reach a convex apex and thin convex blade.

Am I right to think of the different approaches as being on scale in terms of how much material they will remove? Would love feedback, especially on the relative scoring on a 10 - 1 scale.

10: Edge leading on stones raising to a burr, progressing through stones as edge damage dictates.

6: Edge trailing on stones, keep edge angle low, not raising to a burr

4: Edge trailing on wet/dry with wood backing, not raising to a burr

1: Edge trailing on a loaded strop


If this is true, can somebody describe the pros/cons of edge trailing on a stone vs edge trailing on wet/dry with wood backing?

(Heavy handed, I've been watching the videos. Interesting stuff.)
 
Ok... My brain got left at the office this week. Anybody else have a job that does that?

I'm ready, I think, to talk about the how. But only in small doses.


I'm trying to get my head around the different approaches to sharpening and maintaining, but in terms of what they do to the apex and how much material they remove. All of these as ways to reach a convex apex and thin convex blade.

I bolded the above part, only to emphasize one thing: I wouldn't even focus on a convex apex, per se. It always seems to me, that if one is too intent on convexing the apex, it almost always ends up with a rounded (therefore blunt) apex. Instead, focus on smoothly and subtly convexing the shoulders of the edge grind, and the rest essentially takes care of itself. I'm thinking you may have already understood this distinction, as the terminology of 'convexing the edge' sometimes is used to describe a process that actually convexes the shoulders of the edge, and doesn't necessarily imply actually convexing or rounding the apex itself. But, to be safe, I just wanted to make sure, for clarity.

And with Opinels in particular, the blade grind from the start is already a gentle convex, so focusing on deliberately convexing it more may not be necessary anyway, if one of the edge-trailing methods is employed on a somewhat softish or conformable backing. If done as such, any further convexing essentially takes care of itself.
Am I right to think of the different approaches as being on scale in terms of how much material they will remove? Would love feedback, especially on the relative scoring on a 10 - 1 scale.

10: Edge leading on stones raising to a burr, progressing through stones as edge damage dictates.

6: Edge trailing on stones, keep edge angle low, not raising to a burr
With the Opinels, I wouldn't even consider the above^^ (personal preference). Starting with wet/dry on a firm backing (wood, or thin leather or paper over wood, for example) with 220/320-grit is as aggressive as I'd ever want, for re-shaping or thinning the grind on the already thin-bladed Opinels.

4: Edge trailing on wet/dry with wood backing, not raising to a burr

1: Edge trailing on a loaded strop


If this is true, can somebody describe the pros/cons of edge trailing on a stone vs edge trailing on wet/dry with wood backing?

(Heavy handed, I've been watching the videos. Interesting stuff.)

Part of the reason I earlier mentioned avoiding the stones (at least for now) is, I've had a much easier time minimizing burrs when using a backing that's not quite as hard. Not to say that you can't or even shouldn't use them. But when first trying to figure out the edge-trailing method, I believe in minimizing other distractions that can get in the way. I firmly believe that focused pressure is what creates/exacerbates burrs, and a harder backing (stone) will act to do just that. BUT, as one starts to get comfortable with regulating and using pressure to advantage, that's a good time to start migrating back to using a firmer backing, at very light pressure, to refine the apex with minimal rounding. I think anyone who's read many of my posts already knows that I advocate going as firm as possible with the backing/substrate, but that's somewhat dependent on already being comfortable with regulating pressure.

And again, with the Opinels specifically, these blades are already pretty thin. Coarse & hard stones will remove metal very quickly, and I tend to believe that sort of aggressiveness isn't really needed for blades like these anyway. I prefer them for hogging off lots of metal from bigger and thicker blades, especially in more wear-resistant steels, but neither really applies, in this case.

Additionally, in regard to your last two mentioned options (#4 and #1, in your scale for metal removal), there's a WIDE range of options even between those two. For example, very gradual reductions in the hardness of wood will make noticeable differences in aggressiveness. Think of going from something like oak/maple (harder, more aggressive) down through pine, then basswood, then balsa (softest wood, least aggressive). Taken even further in scope, you could also add/subtract layers of paper in between the wood and the sandpaper, to further fine-tune the aggressiveness, and also the degree of convex that will result. And as if that's not enough, also consider using some temporary adhesive to firmly stick the wet/dry to the wood backing. That'll make it work more aggressively in itself, with the other factors remaining unchanged. These are the things I spend a great deal of time experimenting with, and I've learned a ton from it. :)


David
 
Last edited:
Ok... My brain got left at the office this week. Anybody else have a job that does that?

I'm ready, I think, to talk about the how. But only in small doses.


I'm trying to get my head around the different approaches to sharpening and maintaining, but in terms of what they do to the apex and how much material they remove. All of these as ways to reach a convex apex and thin convex blade.

Am I right to think of the different approaches as being on scale in terms of how much material they will remove? Would love feedback, especially on the relative scoring on a 10 - 1 scale.

10: Edge leading on stones raising to a burr, progressing through stones as edge damage dictates.

6: Edge trailing on stones, keep edge angle low, not raising to a burr

4: Edge trailing on wet/dry with wood backing, not raising to a burr

1: Edge trailing on a loaded strop


If this is true, can somebody describe the pros/cons of edge trailing on a stone vs edge trailing on wet/dry with wood backing?

(Heavy handed, I've been watching the videos. Interesting stuff.)


Pinnah, I'll try to hit this as concisely as I can, but I am very prone to rambling. Also, the following is based on assumption from observation - any part of it might be incorrect, or the entire thing. I'm also fighting a bad head-cold... And thanks for watching the videos. Specific methods for a convex, V bevel etc are largely irrelevant, very easy to convex on a hard stone



In terms of material removal, edge leading on a hard stone is going to be the highest amount per pass. The abrasive is hitting a finite spot - the joining point of two planes, so it digs right in, ploughs a trough and exits at the shoulder or along the curve if its a convex or Scandi with a gentle curve (as most are). Max material removal, max definition of the grind trough (ideal for coarse edge work), much of the burr is trapped under the bevel and ground to powder as it goes. The bit of steel that was deformed and pushed up opposite the cutting edge - the abrasive isn't 100% efficient and will almost always leave some material behind - will stay put until it gets removed by flipping the edge and grinding it off.

Edge trailing on hard stones -
removes a bit less steel per pass as the abrasive is hitting along a curve or slope of the shoulder and exitting at the joining of the bevel. When used as part of a back and forth scrub it speeds up material removal considerably without any appreciable increase in burr formation - maybe a small amount. For a finishing method it works poorly, as the amount of pressure that will flip the burr is generally in the neighborhood of what is needed to grind it off, due to the abrasive having a relatively poor angle of attack. An extremely light touch can make it happen but will be problematic. A possible exception is the use of very fine polishing stones on an already cleaned (de-burred) edge. The smaller abrasive and smoother surface will result in very little material removal, and some burnishing, so far less likelihood of burr formation. On a regular stone, almost impossible to create a clean edge this way - edge leading will work far more reliably.

Edge trailing on "hard" stones does not really apply to waterstones or jointer stones. The way the grit is suspended in the stone makes it very easy for the abrasive to tear out if too much pressure is applied, so burr formation is reduced initially by a lapping action, reduced tendency of "proud" abrasive particles to create deeper gouges, and continual presence of fresh abrasive. When used as a backhone, there is some particle mobility and a slightly softer base for the abrasive. It can just grind cleanly without creating a burr when used edge trailing, and is usually capable of removing smaller burrs as well. This property seems to be related to those two factors - hardness of the stone, and relative ability of the abrasive to come loose during grinding, so on a very hard waterstone with strongly bonded abrasive, this might not apply. The same stone finished edge leading will have a slightly more uniform cutting edge when viewed in profile, but might be a tad less refined. For EDU, backhoning leaves a very fine microtooth that makes finish stropping in most cases unnecessary or undesirable. Have seen many discussion of folks using waterstones who do no post stone stropping except on plain leather or paper, and I am one of them. Backhoning on waterstones IMHO is the most demanding of freehand techniques, unforgiving of pressure and angle variations - it will reveal the slightest defect in one's form, but makes an edge with a very nice blend of characteristics. I made the WB specifically to mimic this type of edge but with a greater margin of error regarding pressure, angle control, and stone type/grit value.


-----------------------
 
-----------------------
Edge trailing on wet/dry over hard surface.
This will remove a bit less steel again, due to the edge trailing not biting as hard, and the bit of conformability of the paper - this applies even if the wet/dry is placed over glass. The paper will always have a bit of give. If one switches to lapping film using a thinner synthetic backing the cushion will be less, but still present. This results in a more uniform scratch pattern over a hard stone at the same grit. It also reduces burr formation over a trailing motion on a hard stone at comparable grit value.
As to using but not raising a burr, this is not really possible IMHO, or you won't have sharpened the edge. You can use it to a very very small burr, but it will still be there. The trailing motion is not conducive to burr removal at the same angle, for the same reasons the trailing stroke with a hard stone is inefficient. Can be done but is extremely critical of pressure. I always advocate a few light edge leading passes to finish, and as demo'd in my video, a few drags through wood as you go helps quite a bit. In my experience, drags through wood by themselves will only remove the tiniest of burrs, but interspersed with more work on an abrasive, they can be surprisingly effective. I consider it to be an expedient measure though, as bits of steel and abrasive will get worked into the groove(s), and start scoring the bevel parallel to the cutting edge. Does not effect function, but if the scores are right on top of the apex it can become difficult to distinguish the burr from a fine scratch. A few leading passes suffer no such complication.

------------------------------
 
Back
Top