Advice sought on purchasing a generator

O

Old Salt

Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
17
Hello everyone. I have decided that it is time to add a gas powered generator to my major survival equipment. Problem is that I don't know a lot about them and would really like some input form some knowledgeble people other than salesmen. Someone who has walked down this road before and has some insite to impart.
I live in Austin Texas in an all electric neighborhood. The power has gone out here fairly regularly during electrical storms, cold snaps or wind storms. the longest it has gone out has been for 5 days during a heavy ice storm a couple of winters ago.
The main use of the generator would be for emergnecy power outages, but I would also like the ability to load it in my truck for trips out to the country to help friends building on their farms or for general camping or down to the coast to help my brother in the event of a hurricane etc. What I would like input on is:
1. What wattage to purchase. (I know that this is dependent on what I power and I am listing that below.)
2. Make and models and the best bang for the buck.
3. Portability - not as important as power and reliability.
4. Something that can run a least 24 hours on 1 tank.
5. Power start - maybe automatic start iwth power outage - I haven't looked into that.

I am looking at running:
Multiple fans
1 or more space heaters.
lamps
Microwave.
Mobile phones. (Hard line)
Cell phone chargers.
Radio chargers.
Auto battery charger
1 or more trouble lights.
Electric drill.
Electric skill saw.
electric pump
Electric chain saw
compressor
Refrigerator - possibly 2 plus a freezer.
TV and radios.

(Anything I didn't think of that you consider a must?)

I would not be running all therse at the same time of course, but might be running refrig + fans + lights etc.

Also AC for house if possible. Or would you recommend a small window unit for this? I have elderly people living here who would not do good in August centeral Texas heat for any time.

I know that you should not tie it directly into your house electirical system for various reasons, but how do you go about tying i key house hold appliances?

I am thinking in the 3000 to 5000 watt range. Is this adequate? Too much? Not enough? What is peak output, normal output etc and how does it affect buy decision.

TIA for your responses and help.
Old Salt.
 
Hey sounds like you have your work cut out for you since you will need to do some research to determine exactly how big a load you will be running.
One thing that some don’t remember is that not only do you have to run the load you will have to have the much higher capacity to start the load as well.
If you want to run your AC you are way above the 3-5 K size generator. Also you might look at the propane units so you will not have to worry about storing fuel.
Most of the ones you see are 3600-RPM units that do not last as long as the 1800-RPM units. It might be worth it to see what is available in your area.
My next one is going to be a diesel whole house unit if I can swing it. I have a rather small gas 3600-RPM unit now that does not run every thing I want. Not complaining it was given to me so I go with it but it will not start a couple of things that I was hoping it would.
So make sure you know both the starting wattage as well as the running wattage of your intended load.
 
All electrical items have a wattage rating posted somewhere on them. Add up the ratings that you find and see what you get. Remember that some items like a freezer and A.C. have a 'start' rating. In other words it takes more to start than run. But with all the stuff you want to run, I'd say you'll need more than 6500 W. Probably more.
It's not quite that simple, but more research would be a good thing. This isn't something you do in a couple hours. You've got some responsibility here.



Check out China diesel generators.

Also, you need to get a 1 way isolator for your house or you'll be charging the outside line and may electrocute a tech working to repair the line.
 
I have been running a 13kW diesel with 10 kWA (top) rated 3-phase gen for the last 15 years and about 7000 running hours, been quite satisfied with that. I do have about 500 Ah of lead batteries and a TRUE sinewave inverter running from those. In winter time a take heat out of the cooling water, works quite well and raises the overall efficience nicely.

I made a timer starter for the thing and my next project is to make a truly "easy" automatic started that measures the amp hours used, water levels temps etc. and starts the diesel based on those.

TLM
 
Get a diesel only, they have less parts and less to go wrong and they last longer.

Get the book 'From fryer to fuel tank' about using veg oil as bio diesel and go around to the local fast food/chinese places and get their old oil and make up a batch of bio and store it in 50 Gal drums. If you do enough homework you will be able to set up the genny so that she can use SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil) and will not have to make the Bio. If you have time and the inclination I think its a worthwile endevour.

Some guy in the UK runs all of his household electricity on an old 1.4L Fiat Diesel he got from a scrap yard and SVO from the local Fish & Chip shop :) I think he has it running at less than 2000RPM all the time.

IIRC Bosch makes the best fuel pump for SVO but basically any VW, Merc will be a good candidate. If the Genny is going to be static, it might be cheaper to just mount a car engine on a frame, parts will probably be cheaper too.



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0970722702/102-3694119-7310508?v=glance
 
If you plan to hook into your home circuitry, have an electrician install the appropriate connection box and line cutoff. You will be thankful in the long run.

You would have to add up everything you plan on running simultaneously, and factor in any start-up spikes to determine the rating of what you'll need.

I have no health/age related mandates/requirement, so I only have 5000Kw to cover my freezer and fridges. Fans will suffice until the power comes back on, and I can tie into my furnace blower line with no problem. Lights are optional, food is not.
 
Well. You don't want much out of life do you? :) One thing to consider when looking at a generator is that you should run it at close to it's rated wattage, ie don't run a 10kw gen at 2k for long periods of time. Another thing about wattage ratings, most gens are advertised at there surge rating, this is a momentary rating, you should select a gen on it continous rating, also beware that some gens with a center tapped head that are dual voltage (120/240) may have only half the rated wattage available for each voltage ( say 1500 at 120 and 1500 at 240) these can be moded to run the full wattage at 120 or normal with 120/240.
You say you want to run a compressor and or an ac, this is going to take something like a 10kw genset, lots of money and not very portable, even a small window unit will pull lots of watts. Without the ac and/or compressor a 5kw might be adequate. As said I think you really need to figure out what you will be running and how big a load first and then figure out which gen. As said before a low speed diesel will last longer and be quieter but really is an investment. You might be better off with two small gens and run them as needed. Here are a couple of places that have more info..

http://utterpower.com/
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/39.cfm
http://theepicenter.com/
http://www.equipped.com/

good luck.
 
You are well into the 8-10K watt range.

2 words of advice from experience.

HONDA ONLY!!! It costs more $ for a reason. It outlasts EVERY! Genny on the market bar none. Unless you are a small engine grease monkey with a storeroom of parts get the HONDA.
IF you like fixing generators in dead of winter due to failure after 3 weeks of running don't get a HONDA. ;)

I lived through a 3 week (no power) ice storm in the north east and the Honda's were the only thing reliable.

At least 40% more power output than your calculated max need. YOu will want and need it.

The rest will sort itself out.


skam
 
A repeat on the electrician to hook it up. It's very important to the safety of the repair crews and others after a disaster.

Phil
 
i have owned a few generators over the years,my spin on them is this, get what you need plus about 20 percent. that is run wattage not surge wattage. they are thirsty beasts, i dont know of one that will run 24 hrs on a single tank full. the consume anywhere from 1/2 to 1 gal per hour under 80% load for my 10kw briggs and stratton that i currently have. they are pretty heavy, and will not be easily portable, i think the 10 kw is about 300 lbs. so it is on wheels and ll can pushed outside the garage and the power cord connected inside at the transfer panel. get a motor that is pressure lubricated. mine has electric start which makes it easy for my family to use if i am not there, also the connections to the transfer panel are simple and again can be made without my being there. diesel very expensive, not portable, if i were to buy one i would get a name brand diesel motor, you might have trouble getting service on an import.

my system is set up so i push the generator about 10 feet so it is out of the garage, hook up the cable from the generator to the transfer panel in the garage, turn key on generator to start, turn on generator breaker, flip linked breakers in transfer panel to go from line power to generator power, now electricty is on , close garage door to keep out fumes from generator. check fuel in six hours. change oil every 50 hours of run time. and yo do not need to run the generator 24 hrs per day,just enough to get what you want do morning and night.

fuel storage is a problem, you would want to have enough fuel on hand for emergencies but it will go bad if you store it for a long time, i have used the fuel preservatives and they have kept gasoline usable for over a year. remember that when the power is out the gas station pumps do not work either. some folks like dual fuel systems (gasoline/ propane) for that reason.

as far as automatic transfer-- that is pretty expensive, maybe as much as the generator itself to buy and install. it is really a must to have a transfer panel/switch installed (not neccesarily automatic), this is for your safety and the safety of the lineman working on the power outage get an electrician to give you the lowdown on the building code for your area as they are diferent in various towns.

transfer switch/panels come in two flavors--both allow you to hook up safely to your generator and disconnect you from the power company. the switch allows either line power or gen. power but not both at the same time.

1. the transfer switch that is placed between the electric meter and the main breaker panel. this has to be at least the same size(100-200amps) as the main breaker panel, needs to be installed by an electician, will allow you to use any circuit in the house that is hooked to the main panel. that is as long as your generator makes enough power to handle the load.

2. the transfer sub panel like this-- ( http://www.gen-tran.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=MTS )- this is placed off the main panel, it has a built in double breaker system that allows you to go from line power to generator power but not both at the same time. you then move the circuits from the main panel to the sub panel. these are the circuits that you will be able to apply generator power to. so freezer, lights, wall outlets, furnace, well pump,whatever you decide you will want to run during a power outage.

links to types and costs of transfer switches:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatDsp?No=0&storeId=6970&N=968+280092+36&Ne=1

generators buyers guide at northern:

http://www.northerntool.com/catalog/buyersguides/generators/

i do not work for northern although i bought a few things from them over the years, they always gave me good service, but from these links you can get a sense of the costs involved for your generator as well as transfer switch , this would not include any shipping or installation of course. northern has a large selection of generators so you can get an idea of what the beasts cost also.

alex
 
I don't know a lot about electricity, but even I could tell that you were WAY above your 3-5kw range with your listed items.

Here is a page with some common household items and the electricity they use.

Linked from that, I found this handy calculator that calculates the wattage of what you're planning on.

As to your elderly people, I would seriously consider calling around to local hospitals and asking for their advice ahead of time. Could very well be that they know of a place that has a generator and will take people in during power outages. Even if you get a generator able to handle the load, it's wise to plan on the possibility of it failing.
 
For light/storm use a gas or propane 6-8kw unit will surfice but long term a diesel unit is the way to go.

It took me awhile and 3 gas units later I went Diesel.
Lower rpm's 1800 vs gas or LP units spinning 3600.
Fuel is cheaper and stores longer and safer.
Look for a countinious duty rated unit and size it for 80% of max use
but remember diesels need a load so run the max.

I'm running a White/Onan 20/24 kw unit burning less the 1 gal per hour under load. Load her up 3-4 hrs a mo. keep the filters fresh and buy home heating oil or off road diesel. Use an additive for long term storage and in cold climates add 10% kero to keep from jelling.

The transfer disconnect is a must, Cuttler Hammer makes good stuff.

Ps: I lived off grid for 6 years on a gen-set and propane system.
 
Phatch is right !! Have an electrician do it !!! We had a lineman killed in this area when somebodies generator was feeding the line he was working on .With all you want to power you'd probably be better off to install a permanent system.
 
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