afck, sebenza, & emerson commander owners

4 Ranges

4 Ranges

Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Messages
777
Question:

I'm extremely happy with my afck 806d2. Good fighter and good tool. How do the sebenza and commander compare to the afck in terms of cutting ability and overall quality?

I've had a chance to compare the afck to crkt crawford kaspar, and as much as I like the crkt's...they don't really compare to the afck in terms of cutting ability and overall performance. This is why I'm looking into higher end blades. I'm tempted to get another afck...but I'd like some variety in my collection.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

r---
 
agreed a BM is gonna outcut a CRKT, imho, but try a crawford kasper fighter, and then i think ya will find the kasper is a much better knife than the 800/806 series, but i tell ya, for the $$ the AFCK design is hard to beat.

personally prefer the 800/806 to a EKI commander, but its a close/personal thing, no big diff imho, just kninda like the AFCK better, but the commander is great too.

have a sebbie, and while its a great knife too, i have never really bonded w/it, although its my sons fav knife in my modest collection, so its his when he turns 13 (6 months)

try a EKI SOCFK from wilderness extreme, a spec war handle w/a CQC7 blade (either tanto/SP) that is waved for $139.95, my current EDC fav, w/green G10 and black tanto blade, it looks great imho!!!!

out of all mentioned(production) ( i have 4 800/806's and a seb and a commander) i prefer the SOCFK

i think the crawford KFF is one of the premier designs around, even in the CRKT version, and if ya really wanna see a real fighting folder,check out a kasper or the new perfigo, imho, its hard to beat a crawford kasper folder but they arent cheap!! i really like bob kaspers designs, his hand and mine must be similar size, his stuff fits my hand very well, also have a polkawski companion, and it, too, fits my hand well. designer?? bob kasper.

greg
 
..........have bonded with my Sebenza's!:D I can't objectively answer the question since I am a confirmed Sebenza lover. I've had the AFCK 806 D2 and liked it. It was a great cutter. I was not partial to the opening hole and don't really like them even on the Spydies! But that is just me. You did real well with the 806 D2. You have a knife that will probably outlast you!

btw, the Sebenza is the BEST PRODUCTION KNIFE out there, and better than a lot of customs in terms of fit and precision! Just my opinion, of course yours may vary!

Don't know how, but they may:D ;) :eek:
 
What do you want to do with this next knife?

The 3 mentioned are really pretty different knives. I've got a Commander that I use for harsh things like cutting cans in half. Mine is ground on just one side so, it may or may not outcut another grind.

The Sebenza is a knife in another class. It's not a fighter but, could if required. A very high quality and efficient tool.

AFCK is a great cutter with its thin blade profile but, not what I would use to pry (or is that cut) the top out of a can.
 
I have both commander and a small sabenza.
I agree with everybody, the CRK is the best production made folder.
It is well made. Good utility blade
When I need to do somthing in the house, I will always use the Sebenza. A good Tool.

Commander looks good and the wave
feature is cool and fun to play with but its not a good utility folder.
I am sure from the look of it, commander will be a good fighter.
 
My custom stainless damascus Kasper/Crawford is a big, sharp, well designed knife. But a bit heavy to carry. Still, it could do some damage.

The Commander has a nice look and is a great cutter with its belly but such belly should limit penetrating ability.

The AFCK - my favorite Benchmade - I have two old style ones (ATS-34). I tested this on a dummy in a class and go the bone every time. A great cutter and penetrator. And opens like lightning with the liner lock and hole.

Sebenza. The original Sebby is possibly my favorite knife but more of a workhorse than a tactical. Not that it couldn't rise to the occasion.

Taking price into consideration and my experience with the AFCK I would keep two. One for all around use and keep one pristine for those times (hasn't happened yet) when I might need it. :)
 
Hi,

I've owned Commanders in the past, and owned (own currently) multiple large Sebenzas primarily for utility and secondly for defense. I have only handled the AFCK series and can't really comment on the cutting ability (but otherwise have a lot of background experience with owning BM knives)

I think that the Commanders are a a nicely designed knife, but to compare to the Sebenza might be a case of apples to oranges. I felt the Commanders I've owned are basically on par with Benchmade knives, in terms of fit and finish, but a wee bit pricier. The wave feature is neat, and I'm sort of surprised not to see it as an option on all of Mr Emerson's production line (i've seen the limited versions of his other knives with the wave feature, but i would consider those and exception) The Sebenza on the otherhand, is the priciest of the bunch (though you could get a second hand one for maybe the retail of a Commander) The Sebenza has a great stout utility blade, and takes an extremely sharp edge (literally filleting paper). I don't have any complaints about the knife, but I would say that it wouldn't do as well (perhaps) in a knife fight, given the small amount of the handle you can really get a good grip on. The Commander has a better designed handle for penetration, though like the previous posters have mentioned, the belly may hurt it's ability to penetrate overall. With the Sebenza, not getting a good grip on it might have you ending up with a fistful of blood if you slipped. Looking at the AFCK and Commander reveal to me a different emphasis on their design (and considering the names and purposes) With their ability to get a strong grip and not worrying about having your hand slide up onto the blade.

I've also owned two custom Crawford Kasper folding knives, and though I found Mr Crawford to be a little disagreeable, the Kasper design lends itself incredibly well to what its meant for. The grip is a no brainer, you don't have you reposition your hand in any way once you grip the knife, it sort of grips you back the way its designed, with the grooves and built in guard. My complaint about the custom models, was the variations in the quality of grind on thumb ramps and minor finish problems I've seen in the onces I've owned. I can understand and accept them from the standpoint of a custom enthusiast, but find it more unacceptable that a knife maker of reputable background wouldn't correct something he had done poorly (email me for more info, it's a short story).

I think that the CRKT Kasper is a nice affordable translation of the custom KFF, though I wish they spent a little more money on the materials used, like someone else said, the steel in the CRKT variation of the KFF (AUS6 or 8?) would never outcut the D2 in the AFCK.

So to recap ;)
knife=primary/secondary
Commander=defense/utility, leaning towards defense
Kasper=defense/utility, heavily leaning towards defense
Sebenza=utility/defense, leaning towards utility
AFCK=a nice inbetween, straddling the line
so...
just my 2, everyone has their own opinion and thats all this is.

jon
 
Okay, to some extent I highly biased, in that I don't believe liner locks are suitable for hard-use knives. However, since you obviously don't believe the same, I'm going to ignore that.

I think either would be a fine addition to your collection. I would counsel you to look harder at the Sebenza. You already have the finest production defense-utility knife (806D) in your collection. Why not get the Sebenza, which frankly excels at just about everything, but has that great thin hollow-ground edge for killer performance? Besides, you need an S30V blade in your collection ! If you don't have the hottest new steel in your collection, are you really a knife knut :) ??? Note that I don't have an S30V blade in my collection yet, either.

The Commander is something you'll probably like, too. Very recurved blade is nice for slicing. The handle provides a lot of hand protection on hard thrusts/slashes, but note that these curvier handles sometimes don't fit everyone's hands. Wave opening. It's a killer package, I understand why it has so many fans.

Joe
 
..................you need to buy a Sebenza man!:D :eek: ;) They have S30V steel and then you will be a REAL knife knut!!:)
 
I have a Sebenza, an AFCK, and a Commander. I'd suggest you handle a 910 Stryker and see how it fits. I have one of those and a spare. The AFCK doesn't come out of the display very often any more. The Commander never did ring for me. Not very pointy and a lot of belly. Now, the EKI Specwar A makes a great carry. I bought one for my son and he is very happy with it. I have to wait until I can cough up enough jack to get one from the Custom Shop because of this left-handed affliction that I have. No discounts for us! - Lee
 
Thanks for the responses. I've been leaning towards a sebbie for a while, but when I heard that one of my knife influences, Paul Vunak, preferred the Emerson as his favorite tactical...of course I had to look around. but I'm not keen on liner locks. So all your input pretty much sealed this one.

I do love the design on the production CRKT KFF, great handle and blade design...but the AUS6A steel is disappointing compared to the d2 on the AFCK. I even prefer the meaty, durable FEEL of the KFF over the AFCK...but the AFCK simply outperformed it in cutting everything.

BOTTOM LINE: I'm probably going to get another AFCK, and budget for a couple of sebbies in the future. Great locks, great design, great steel, and legendary rep. I'll probably look into a custom CRKT KFF as well.
 
And if you want to see the AFCK really outperform it, you can take advantage of D-2's superiority over 6A and really thin it out to a level where the 6A would blunt and roll too quickly to be useful, and you'll get outrageous performance with that AFCK. Remember, you're not really taking advantage of the better steel unless you're bringing out the best of it in your sharpening plan.

Joe
 
Just to start some (more) trouble.

I am a knifemaker, but before I ever made a knife, I trained in the Philippine martial arts for many years.

Some questions and comments:

Have any of you ever been in a knife fight? Why all this talk of a folder's (or any knife for that matter) usefulness as a fighter? Unless you plan to be dueling with another knife weilding person (this essentially never happens and is one of the biggest shortcomings/fallacies of much of the instruction out there, Paul Vunak's included, though I do think he is a very competent martial artist), the utility of a knife as a so-called "fighter" is a joke. And, if you do plan to be dueling, carry a 15" bowie, or, better yet, a gun.

Knives are tools. Many of the posts above are fantasy, but they are not harmless. All this talk of fighting knives is just what overzealous and underinformed politicians and busybodies want so that they can use it as evidence that knife ownership is tantamount to planning to use a knife to cut someone. Think before you write.

In the very very rare instance that a knife might have to be used for personal defense (I am assuming that is what you mean by "fighting"), any knife of reasonable quality will do fine. People think they need something with a mean looking, black coated blade that was designed by an ex-SEAL, but ask yourself this, and be honest--Would you be any happier if someone came after you with a Swiss army knife? a Case stockman? etc.? I would not.

I also agree with Joe Talmadge that talking of fighting folders is ridiculous. If you are really in harms way, and some of you may be LEOs, military, etc., do yourself a favor and get a good fixed blade knife with a comfortable carry system. The time it takes you to draw your folder, index the opening mechanism, open it, secure your grip, and deploy will be enough for a man with a fixed blade do draw and end the confrontation. Add to this stress, fear, body contact, gloves for some in winter, etc. and you are simply deluding yourself.

Finally, I like the Sebenza. It has classic lines and the best lock out there. It's name also means "work" which is alot better in court than "Deathwind fighter" or some other such hype that will land you in prison.
 
John:

speaking of fixed blades, my first choice of fighting knife IS a bowie. I have a Matt Lamey 11" blade bowie on the way, and 2 more for next year from Bill Bagwell himself. When Jerry "Awesome" Hossom starts taking orders again, I'm ordering a millenium espada and an 11" millenium bowie from him as well. I love my big knives. Absolutely love them!!!

But I live in NYC. illegal to carry such big knives on me. And even if I did, I wouldn't want to risk losing a Lamey or a Bagwell to the NYPD on simple possession. Can you imagine losing a $700-$2000 investment?

AFCK's, on the other hand, are perfectly legal, and easier to conceal. I'm not a duellist, and I'm not looking for any trouble whatsoever. But considering the number of punks that carry all types of $hit out there nowadays, I like to pack what I can. Of course a folding knife is not my first choice as a "fighter" - I have a CS city stick for that. But I like to be prepared.

Oh yeah, in terms of firearms, also very difficult to get a permit, let alone a carry permit.

I'm very much a realist. If I lived in a fantasy, I wouldn't be discussing carry options, and I'd be perfectly satisfied w/ a TKD blackbelt to protect me.

You bring up good points though.
 
i was a LEO for 12 yrs and always carried a back up folder onme (BM AFCK, Crawford Kasper, one of theses 2 usually) simply because of all the crap i carried, a fixed blade just was too much - tried a MOD razorback and a polkawski companion, and after a wk or so, went back to the BM AFCK. i now have a nealy pesh kebz and bud says once he makes me a custom sheath, i'll never carry a folder again, we'll see. but carry 2 guns, 3 spare mags, radio,cuffs,ID,pen/paper/pager/cell phone/OC spray/ASP/surefire Z2/streamlight baton lite/etc, all that crap gets HEAVY and cumbersome.

i usually used mine for utility, but intended to use it for SD if the need ever came up. remember i also carried a glock 32C or a SIG P220 .45, and usually a back up gun also, a walther PPK or kel tech P32. so the odds of needing the knife were slim, they were still there. i wish i woulda had my cammilus cuda maxx before retirement, it woulda been a good one, big, easy to carry, good lock/steel, what can ya complain about????? i got mine almost exactly 2 weeks before retirement, so only got to carry it a little bit.

so FWIW i think that the folder fills a niche for those of us who might need a back up to the back up, esp civilians who, by law(in some areas), cant carry a fixed blade, a good folder will work just fine. why it is some people think a folder is useless for SD is beyond me, maybe yrs ago when locks sucked,i would agree, but w/all the reliable locking systems available now, they are plenty strong enough, imho, for the job, if a good reputable make of knife is employed. w/a axis /liner/compression/frame lock from a good maker, ya should have no probs imho

as far as 10" bowies, etc my boss woulda thought i was nutz if i showed up w/something like that, not to mention all the people i worked with, they thought i was paranoid anyway, throw in a 10" bowie, and they'd be wanting to arrest me lol

greg
 
Greg is right on the money.
I will have to disagree with those who dismiss the folder for defense/fighting.
A folder makes alot of sense because it's the knife you're going to have with you all the time.
Very few people will carry around a fixed-blade for very long for several reasons: it's usually heavier than a folder, it's usually more awkward and bulky to carry, sometimes there are legal restrictions, and people will think you're either a wannabe or a psycho.
Even when I served in the Army I preferred to carry a folder rather than a fixed-blade (and nearly all of my fellow Soldiers also carried folders or multi-tools rather than a fixed-blade). The folder handled all my Soldier related needs and an E-tool would be better for hand-to-hand than a fixed blade knife anyway IMHO.

As for the speed of deployment issue: I find that there really is'nt any issue at all. If you are attacked without any warning at all, you're not going to be able to deploy any weapon before you take a hit. And no matter how fast you can draw your fixed-blade, you can punch and kick even faster.
And if you see a bad situation developing or have some form of warning about an attack, then you should have already either fled the scene or already opened your folder (keeping it concealed of course).

Just my 2 cents worth,
Allen.
 
I'm thinking of adding a cuda maxx into my collection as well. the d2 and the lock, plus the bowie profile...schweet!
 
I can almost guarantee you will not regret adding a Sebenza to your collection, even if you don't use it for self defense. It is such a well made tool. I will also recommend the Camillus Mad MAx 5.5. These are the only two, along with the Benchmade 910 Stryker, that I have owned. Oh, and just a reminder that you should maintain a constant awareness of your surroundings and avoiding trouble before it starts. If I get the drop on you, I can mess you up with my Case Hobo ( with Spoon )...just kiddin', rdogout
 
I agree with Joe on the knife/gun point. I'll draw my 228 before my SERE every time in an SD situation. But a lot of people live in places where you don't have that option. I used to live in NJ, and there was NO WAY you were gonna get a carry permit.

As to the Case/SAK attack, sure any knife can be deadly, but if weall carried only what we needed to, then this Knife Forum would be closed up! We'd all be carrying Leathermen or medium sized SAKs. Chris Reeve would be out of business if buyer bought knives strictly on need. Do you really need a Seb to cut open an Apple? Half the fun is in the unique nature and quality of the knives we buy.
 
the XXL Sebenza I been wanting!:D This is one great knife. Titanium framelocker and D2 steel? For the price you can pick one up for? Better hurry before Will realizes the mistake they made and doubles the price!!:eek: ;)
 
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