AFCK vs. MILITARY vs. ???????????

SALTY

SALTY

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2000
Messages
5,806
My knives are in catagories. I have a Sebenza, which is in a catagory by itself, so let's not light the flame on that one.

Forget fixed blades, I have enough of them and use them afield because of laws, sheeple and the like. I'm talking folders.

Large Wegners and 110s are good for hunting and the like and Enduras and such are good for cheap users/beaters. Sifus, Emersons and the like are the "tactical" group.

I'm talking about that in between, "use but don't abuse (too much) group." I'm talking true "Sport Utility Folders" as James would say.

If there were no Sebenza (please not) and $40 Enduras and Oddeseys need not apply, (Not that there's anything wrong with them, I carry mine frequently) whats the high end user?

I'm not into killing people, hurting people, scaring people or any of that. But like a SUF (Sport Utility Folder) I will use a #2 pencil to protect myself and loved ones if need be. So, what will it be????????????
 
BM-910
EDI Genesis
CRKT Point Guard
CRKT S2

What else..... CRKT Apache.

 
How about the Benchmade 710 and 730?

The William Henry Evolution series might fit as well.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
I would recommend the Al Mar SERE 2000. Not getting alot of attention yet, but really rocks! Also the Benchmade 710 would be an excellent choice.

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Dennis Bible
 
Between AFCK and Military, I prefer the Military for a number of reasons:

1. The recessed liner and super thin washers allow the blade to fit snugly between the handle slabs, with not much room for lateral blade wobble.

2. Steel locking liner should wear longer than AFCK's titanium.

3. Adjustable (at the factory) eccentric pivot means the liner lock can be tweaked for optimal positioning.

AFCK also has a lot going for it, including a very nice handle shape (at least for me), and a versatile blade configuration. From a mechanical and structural standpoint, I believe the Military is more sophisiticated. Design-wise (blade profile and handle ergonomoics) AFCK gets the nod, but only slightly. In sum, I have one AFCK and two Militaries, and carry the Military more often.

710 Axis Lock is also worth a serious look. Between Military and 710 Axis Lock, I'd say it's a toss-up.

David Rock


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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.

[This message has been edited by David Rock (edited 07-28-2000).]
 
I like the Military, as it seems to carry very well in my pocket compared to some knives. I have carried knives that are much smaller, and they seem to dig into my leg and hip more than the Military. Plus, the 440V blade is awesome!

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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
Originally posted by Nimrod:

I'm not into killing people, hurting people, scaring people or any of that. But like a SUF (Sport Utility Folder) I will use a #2 pencil to protect myself and loved ones if need be. So, what will it be????????????
Click to expand...

You are a smart man for a Nimrod. And an astute reader
smile.gif


Starmate gets my vote. Solid, great steel, nice size and blade shape.

Paracelsus
 
David: 1)If it is the washers that support the blade, would spacing between handles affect lateral rigidity or is that more visually suggested? 2) I think you are right, steel probably does wear better than Ti. 3) Would the eccentric pivot pins have to be tweaked at the factory? If so, would the cost of the tweaking be about the same as a tune-up (with replacement parts) for an AFCK, if need be?

Paracelsus: You are a kind man for a Paracelsus.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 07-28-2000).]
 
Nimrod,

The lateral blade support I'm talking about is not a merely visual effect. With the Military, the handle supports the blade, and the thin washers apparently serve only as bushings. With the AFCK the blade and handle slabs are actually pretty far apart. With the Military, You can't even see the washers in there; the blade rests between two wide, flat surfaces so it's pretty solid. Compare these two knives side by side and you'll see what I mean. And because the Military's locking liner is recessed into the G-10 handle slab, there is no need for a washer's thickness to allow the liner spring to move laterally, as is the case with most other liner locks, including the AFCK. If you look at an AFCK or similar liner lock, you'll notice that one of the washers is smaller than the other, and both of these washers add space between the blade and the handle slabs. The smaller washer is necessary in order for the liner spring to be able to move over. The small washer in the AFCK is the one I worry about. It just doesn't support the blade all that well, in my opinion. (Incidentally, one advantage to the 710 Axis Lock is that you get two larger washers instead of one large and one small.)

Having said all that, let me say that I don't think the AFCK is a flimsy knife. I'm sure it will stand up to considerable hard use. I just think the Military is stronger.

The Spyderco recessed liner is really a great feature.

David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
 
Sorry, I got so excited that I forgot to address your other questions.

I have heard of individual owners disassembling the Military to adjust the pivot themselves. Spyderco does not recommend that you do it yourself, as they have a special tool they use. I wouldn't try to do it myself.

My guess is that the eccentric pivot tweaking operation would be free. The liner will wear for a very long time before you'll have to worry about it, at any rate.

David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
 
For your reply, AFCK gets the nod from this BM fan. I own a BM970, which is the Emerson CQC-7, and it has Ti liners, and the same washers I believe as the AFCK, and I have had NO problems with blade wobble, liner wear, OR the liner lock loosening. This knife is rock solid in every aspect, and it gets used HARD every single day.
Of course, thats just my opinion.....

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"ALWAYS respond CODE 3"..
the fastest way to get there NOW!

[This message has been edited by CODE 3 (edited 07-29-2000).]
 
A BM 720. The Mel Pardue axis lock plain edge has grown into my daily carry since I got it. I really like it, it's as sturdy as a bank vault. Bumped the BM 710 and Starmate out of my pocket for awhile. They were rotating duty.
 
David: Thanks for all the info. Am I to understand your comments to say that the blade on the Military actually contacts the handle slabs? I thought, though I could be wrong, that the washers/bushings actually contact and support the blade and that the handle slabs never really contact the blade if all is fitted properly.

If that is the case, would the spacing between the blade and the slabs be more an issue of tolerance than fuction?

All of this, however, may very well be like picking the fly poop out of the black pepper.
 
Nimrod,

Yes, there is a gap between the blade and the handle slabs, but it's very close. The washers take up space in there, but from my vantage point, without disassembling the knife, it looks like it's the handle supporting the blade directly. Compared to an AFCK, it appears that there is more surface area directly supporting the blade.

The bottom line is that it's a sturdy knife. The AFCK is also a sturdy knife. I would bet that the Military is stronger than the AFCK, but I've never pushed either one to the breaking point, and I have no immediate plans to do so.


David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.

[This message has been edited by David Rock (edited 07-29-2000).]
 
Weird, I always thought thicker washers were better because the blade would need to wobble more in order to scrape the liners under opening pressure from the thumb. That seems to a big problem with many other knives.... there isn't enough space between the liners and the blade and so when you push it, it slides and scrapes against the liners. Very disturbing little sound and very ugly for the finish.

Anyone want to help enlighten me?

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Chang and the Rebels of the East!
Southern Taiwan Will Rise Again!
cst.jpg
 
Comrade, with thicker washers, there is more chance of the washer compressing, resulting in lateral blade play. You may be correct about rubbing the liners, but there will still be, in an absolute sense, less wobble.
 
For daily carry, I like the BM AFCK 800 and the Spyderco Starmate best for production folders.

I like the BM 710, and appreciate the Axis lock for what it is, an elegant innovation, but the longer I own it, the less I like the Axis primarily because:
1. I don't personally think liner locks are the "unlocking" risk that others seem to think they are, YMMV.
2. The Axis lock picks up pocket debris and grit very readily, continues to function as a lock just fine, but I never seem to be able to stay away from the gritty sound/feel when I open the knife after carrying for a while... like I have about 8 grains of fine grained sand in the lock (guess I shouldn't routinely steal so much dirt from work in my front pockets, eh?)

The Military is a very good, but not great, utility and defense knife, but for a daily carry knife, it has one significant flaw in my opinion: the handle is very long and so the closed length is long, and the blade-to-handle ratio is short compared with AFCK or Starmate. The Military is the only folder I own (up past qty=30 I guess) that is noticeably UNcomfortable to carry in my front right pocket (I'm 5'11"). It's fine otherwise, and I like 440V. The Military is very thin, light, and strong, but thickness is much easier to tolerate vs. length in my pocket (AFCK and Starmate suit me better here).

The 440V Starmate really takes and holds an aggressive edge with diamond stones, I like that a lot personally. No brittleness problems, even though mine was purchased when Spyderco was doing about Rc57-58 I think.

I bought my AFCK probably 4 years ago. The newer ones have a radiused grind on the back of the tang like the Military and Starmate have. This should be good for long term lock wear and is an improvement.

If they make the AFCK out of 440V or better, 420V, I'll buy another and give the old one to my brother. M2 just isn't enough performance improvement over ATS-34 (if any) to warrant funking around with corrosion hassles for a carry knife. Maybe CPM M4, 10V or 15V are worth the trouble, M2 is not. Again, YMMV.

(Kasper Folder is too big for my pocket too, and here is one where the thickness and width[!] both become too much to tolerate for me. I bought a custom Crawford Kasper right when the first came out, couple years ago, carried it for a day and returned it. Guess I'm just not enough of a real armchair commando to tolerate such minor inconveniences).

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rdangerer@home.com
 
Rdanderer,

A couple of comments.

1. In my opinion, blade/handle ratio is vastly overrated as a design criterion. The relatively long handle of the Military gives you the swell on both ends. The extra length gives you the extra width, most notably at the pommel end, which makes for excellent retention. Chop through a 2x4 with each of your favorite folding knives and you'll see what I mean.

2. What kind of pants do you wear? I wear loose fitting pants with vertical pocket slits. Levi Dockers, actually, and the Military rides just fine in my front pocket. If I wear blue jeans, with a more horizontal pocket opening, the Military seems happier in my back pocket.

3. Did I mention I like the Military?
smile.gif



David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
 
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