Affordable Frame Lock?

Y

yerscattergun

BANNED
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
917
I am a big fan of Emersons but can't help to think their titanium frame
locks are pricey(and discontinued). Why dont they just make stainless steel locking side framelocks and skeletonize them for weight reduction? Cheaper
than titanium but not quite as light. But they would be a framelock for
any model 8. 11, 7 13 etc.....
 
I think a steel frame lock as thick as the Ti ones would be pretty heavy,
as you say it could be skeletonised but IMO that looks crap and is miles away from what EKI is usually puting out.
It would also be subject to rust and would appeal less to materials junkies (like me :p)
 
A lot of folks wonder why they can't just offer the full line in frame locks using titanium because they are more than willing to pay for them. If they used .125 to .140 thickness titanium all that same hardware used in the liner locks from the pivot barrel to the screws and stop pin works in the frame locks so they would not need to change anything as far as parts and due to how they could make the frame locks they'd only need half as much G10 as they currently use so there would be some offset there.

Going out on a limb here I think what keeps Ernie from making frame locks is a combo of a couple factors. One, Ernie is a very understanding and loyal person that recognizes IP (intellectual property) and respects a persons right to that and I think he feels that if he offered a full line of frame locks that it could take away money from his friend Chris Reeve who came up with the idea for frame locks that all of us appreciate so much now. Ernest has said a couple times to folks over the years that the reason he held back for so long on going forward with any frame locks at all was out of respect for Chris Reeve since it was Chris' idea so perhaps the full line would really be something he just doesn't want to do to a friend. Personally it seems to me that EKI could simply offer Chris a % or a royalty for each frame lock his company sells if that is the case but I don't know. The second thing is that titanium has just risen in price so much that its probably beyond his comfort zone to stock it. Again though, its just a guess on my part and I may be way off.


STR
 
Thanks for your thoughts. STR, I meant specifically steel
locking side frame locks as I believe you are right about titanium.
A frame lock made of steel, if drilled for weight reduction would
greatly strengthen the locks on the Emerson line. They could still use
a titanium non locking side liner and use the same excellent designs, they would just be framelocks with a cost of say $100, which would greatly
increase their market share because framelocks are the most popular
and best(IMHO) lock design on the market. I sit here and look at my Boker
M Type with a steel framelock that is incredibly well made. I know that
Kershaw has an excellent US made steel framelock(Storm II) that is a little
too heavy, but a slab of g-10 on the non lock side and a steel framelock
would be unbeatable with the excellent handle designs of Emerson's
knives.
 
yerscattergun said:
Thanks. Maybe the Emerson crew checks the board and likes
my idea too...:D
Click to expand...

You never know...... infact you do, Ernie pretty much sticks to his guns every time. Its not going to happen.

If your happy using steel for a frame lock it would cheeper to have one doen after market than a Ti one so why not get it done and see how you like it ?

And let us all know how it goes :):thumbup:
 
i dont think he will because while we might be willing to pay the extra dollar for frame locks most folks wont and are just fine with the liner locks, which is also why he disco'd the HD7 and the CQC12, they didnt sell well, probably due to the cost, EKI's are more high end knives to begin with and most folks grumble about paying for a CQC7, or a commander, and just wont ante up the $$ for a '12 or a HD7, imho the large majority of folks simply wont pay the extra money............not all (probably not most?) folks are that "into" knives like we are lol.
 
I don't know why folks drop big bucks for a Strider or a Seb but won't for a Emerson "7" or "12" ??
 
Good question :confused:

I'm obviously quite in to my EKIs so had to have one of each :p

People do seem a bit faster on the trigger when it comes to Sebenzas or striders though.
 
SIFU1A said:
i dont think he will because while we might be willing to pay the extra dollar for frame locks most folks wont and are just fine with the liner locks, which is also why he disco'd the HD7 and the CQC12, they didnt sell well, probably due to the cost, EKI's are more high end knives to begin with and most folks grumble about paying for a CQC7, or a commander, and just wont ante up the $$ for a '12 or a HD7, imho the large majority of folks simply wont pay the extra money............not all (probably not most?) folks are that "into" knives like we are lol.
Click to expand...

Very true and that's exactly why a steel frame lock
around $100 would push Emersons into the more affordable category while
switching to a new, better lock which we all agree is better than a liner lock.
I love Emersons but feel their entry price around $150 for a liner lock
is really pushing it and in fact, all of the Emersons I've ever owned I have
bought second hand(my current CQC11 too). It seems that other knife companies are offering different types of locks but EKI might be
a little stuck in the late 90's. I know that sounds a little harsh but
I have owned many Emerson's and love the knives but want to see
some evolution. I would buy a little heavier steel framelock CQC-11,
CQC-8 and CQC-13 in a heartbeat if they retailed for around $100.
I have owned a CQC-12(bought second hand) and I know Emerson
does framelocks with the best of them.

My thinking is that they wouldn't even have to use a liner on the non locking side, just pure G-10, as on the 12. The only part steel would be the framelock side. This would save money because no expensive titanium
has to be used on the knife at all. I'm sure STR knows a heck of a alot
more than I do, would that be possible? And STR, you make framelocks for
Emerson's, correct? How about in steel for a CQC-11?

I am rambling a little but I wanted to say that Emerson is my favorite knife company(great service, great designs
and quality) and I'd like to see them take the market by storm with a new knife that knocks your socks
off...
 
yerscattergun said:
Very true and that's exactly why a steel frame lock
around $100 would push Emersons into the more affordable category while
switching to a new, better lock which we all agree is better than a liner lock.
I love Emersons but feel their entry price around $150 for a liner lock
is really pushing it and in fact, all of the Emersons I've ever owned I have
bought second hand(my current CQC11 too). It seems that other knife companies are offering different types of locks but EKI might be
a little stuck in the late 90's. I know that sounds a little harsh but
I have owned many Emerson's and love the knives but want to see
some evolution. I would buy a little heavier steel framelock CQC-11,
CQC-8 and CQC-13 in a heartbeat if they retailed for around $100.
I have owned a CQC-12(bought second hand) and I know Emerson
does framelocks with the best of them.

My thinking is that they wouldn't even have to use a liner on the non locking side, just pure G-10, as on the 12. The only part steel would be the framelock side. This would save money because no expensive titanium
has to be used on the knife at all. I'm sure STR knows a heck of a alot
more than I do, would that be possible? And STR, you make framelocks for
Emerson's, correct? How about in steel for a CQC-11?

I am rambling a little but I wanted to say that Emerson is my favorite knife company(great service, great designs
and quality) and I'd like to see them take the market by storm with a new knife that knocks your socks
off...
Click to expand...

No worries, I'll ramble some now. I used to make them in steel in the days before titanium was as easy to find as it is now. When titanium first came out it was just a rumored super material that was restricted to NASA and aerospace and all we could get at first was small end cuts from some suppliers and not usually in any uniform consistent shipments and often times not even really with any guarantee that it was a good alloy so it was hit or miss for the little guy for a while.

As a result I used 410 stainless for both liners and pocket clips for my folders at first. I had them heat treated to about 45 Rockwell pretty consistently but I stopped using steel when titanium became more readily available because it actually worked out back then to save me time by not having to be delayed a couple weeks out or more to get stuff mailed off and heat treated. The way I work, since I do a lot for guys wanting production mods, many times I'm sent someone's personal every day carry partner and the last thing they want is to be without it for months on end so to me it was worth it to use the titanium because it took my turn around times and sped things up tremendously. If I had my own heat treat facility here I may still use some steel but since I don't it takes time and delays things and just isn't something I stock.

Ti has many advantages. Lighter weight is just one. It wears quite well and is a natural spring. It is self healing, and you have the ability built in to color anodize the product if you like. This on top of its natural galling to stick to dis-similar metals and even itself makes it a top choice for frame and liner locks. I like steel though and it doesn't indent as easily based on my testing. It does add some weight but you can counter that to some degree by how you make it.

In answer to your question I do work on EKI folders and many others quite often. I have EKIs four here now for frame lock conversions, have done one already this year in that Persian just up last month in my blog and will probably get many more before year end as is usual but I do not intend to switch back to steel personally. I like ti, have learned to work with it and have plenty in stock so to buy steel also would just mean more storage space and more purchases since I'd still be buying titanium also.


STR
 
Favorite knife companies? Emerson is one of my favorites. I like lots of them but I do use EKI products even if I do beef them up for my own liking.

Cost may be a big factor with regard to Ernie's decision. Products need to sell. If they sit on shelves that isn't doing the company any good so it may be wiser to just offer limited runs now and then at Christmas time that you can be sure will sell off and not hurt you or it may just be wiser to stop offering what hasn't sold so good and try something else. Personally, and not trying to insult them but I've always felt EKI production folders were no better built than some of the ones from other companies at half the cost using the same materials but I've bought the Emersons I like both new and used because I like Ernie and I like supporting companies that make their products here at home in the USA.

I've found in life that yeah, it can bite a bit to take the plunge and please yourself at times with some purchases but you know what? I've always recovered from it and never regretted getting what I liked and wanted when I made it happen. I'm not going to die tomorrow regretting that I didn' just get the Emerson when that is what I wanted. EKI's are higher priced. Sure you can buy another USA made product for less but it won't be quite the same aura that surrounds the Emerson. Its hard to define what that something is that we all ID with about these Emerson folders but you see it just like I do. I don't know that it is really that the company makes a better or more top shelf product though. Whatever it is it is something other than this I think but we all see it and feel it though and thats why we keep buying them. I'm sure some don't get it. But even with my critical look at some for certain things and my view on liner locks as a whole I have been an avid supporter of the company and like them too. I don't even want to know how much I've spent on them but I can tell you without a doubt that I am not alone. I see guys more than willing to spend the money on their folder all the time to chunk it up and invest in it but two companies stand out for brand loyalty to me in this area. Spyderco and Emerson. Gee I wonder why?
 
Yercattergun does present a persuasive argument but all said and done I just
wouldnt be climbing over folk to pick up a steel frame lock over a Ti one.

I'v been working with Ti for a while now as well and have grown to like it alot.
Steel is not a bad thing by any means but I just like Ti more and feel it is better suited for the needs of a lock as a whole.

:thumbup:
 
I never understood Emerson's, HardWear, line of knives. Ernest could have designed an affordable Emerson folder, like Scatter talked about.
 
yerscattergun said:
Very true and that's exactly why a steel frame lock
around $100 would push Emersons into the more affordable category while
switching to a new, better lock which we all agree is better than a liner lock.
I love Emersons but feel their entry price around $150 for a liner lock
is really pushing it and in fact, all of the Emersons I've ever owned I have
bought second hand(my current CQC11 too). It seems that other knife companies are offering different types of locks but EKI might be
a little stuck in the late 90's. I know that sounds a little harsh but
I have owned many Emerson's and love the knives but want to see
some evolution. I would buy a little heavier steel framelock CQC-11,
CQC-8 and CQC-13 in a heartbeat if they retailed for around $100.
I have owned a CQC-12(bought second hand) and I know Emerson
does framelocks with the best of them.

My thinking is that they wouldn't even have to use a liner on the non locking side, just pure G-10, as on the 12. The only part steel would be the framelock side. This would save money because no expensive titanium
has to be used on the knife at all. I'm sure STR knows a heck of a alot
more than I do, would that be possible? And STR, you make framelocks for
Emerson's, correct? How about in steel for a CQC-11?

I am rambling a little but I wanted to say that Emerson is my favorite knife company(great service, great designs
and quality) and I'd like to see them take the market by storm with a new knife that knocks your socks
off...
Click to expand...

i agree with ya, but sadly i aint ernie and from what i have seen him post he just doesnt seem to want to go in that direction, for whatever reason, he does sell a lotta the liner lock models and its hard to argue with success though.

i dont know if folks would accept the SS frame lock vs the ti, what with the fuss that was raised when he went to a SS/ti on LL vs the ti/ti,

but the suggestion does have some merit, but dont hold your breath waiting lol.

and my interpretation of his posts i have seen on the subject of locks he doesnt think theres anything wrong with the LL FWIW.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top