After perfect what sells a knife?

KenOnion

KenOnion

Joined
Apr 21, 1999
Messages
739
The knife industry is an ever evolving one .While at the Blade show in june I wandered the isles talking to people and admiring all of the talented work on display.Some knife makers were selling like mad while others were not.I noted that even the guys that wern't selling (not all)made beautiful knives ,workmanship was excellent price was fair.
My question is ,after perfect what sells a knife ? Meaning ,say 20 knife makers are in a row displaying there wares and all of them have excellent workmanship and fair prices. Who do you buy a knife from and why?
 
Understandably, many makers like to work within a certain genera. Tacticals and art knives seem to dominate. The trouble is, at a cursory glance; they all start to look similar. For example, although I really like damascus and fossil ivory, after I've looked at a few dozen small folders made from these materials, they all start to blend together. Same with the ubiquitous black and gray tactical. What stops me in my tracks every time is a knife that breaks the mold in its overall design esthetics. Modern, sweeping, understated lines that flow from one end to the other whether the knife is open or closed. I like art (or is it presentation grade?) knives that are large, solid, and carry the mystique of something dangerous. Just as predators in nature often tend to be beautifully streamlined, a few makers capture that quality in their designs. Jeff Harkins for one. It doesn't matter if one of Jeff's knives is solid designer damascus with gold accents, or plain bead blasted steal, the lines tell me it's art. I can always spot one of Jeff's knives from a distance. I never need to look at the signature. That's what does it for me, and that's where I'm putting my money.

I must admit Ken; your designs have that signature quality as well. I always know an Onion when I see one.
wink.gif
Most of them practically shout, "put me to work!" but they're nice enough that you don't want to put a single scratch on em. Ergonomics are an art form too.
 
Ken the first one of us that figures that out is going to be a busy man. The only rule in my neck of the woods is that a hunting knife has to have a dark handle to sell consistantly. There are exceptions of course.

I guess that if you give the customer more than he expects for the price that would help too but it wouldn't take long to go out of business that way.

Good luck on your quest.


------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com

 
Taking a look at a few of the knives I have had made in the last couple of years, the first thing that comes into play on the decisions to have the knives made is the relationship that has developed with the maker. They are people who I have complete trust in.

The knives are very different. One was made by Dellana Warren. The design and execution of this knife strikes me first. The ability to encorporate the elements that we discussed into a flowing design so that none of the elements stand out on their own detracting from the knife itself is evident. If I had tried to put all this together it would look gaudy as if it was thrown together. It is not too hard to realize how much thought as well as skill went into this piece.

Another is a three piece all damascus dagger by Sava Damlovac. The lines lines and design of this knife are purely classical; the fit and finish are as close to perfect as a knife can get. Sava is never satisfied; he constantly pushes himself in any task he involves his skills with. There are many makers out there that exhibit that trait.

A doctors pattern by Eugene Shadley. The seems of the backsprings and liners on this knife are more invisible than visible the knife is nothing short of ellegant perfection.

Often times new mechanisms and unusual ergonomic designs also draw my attention to a knife.

Over all, the relationship that develops still has a tremendous amount of influence on my buying / ordering decisions.
 
'Perfect' is evidently more than just cosmetics as Hartsfield knives don't seem to be considered as cosmetically perfect and yet his knives seem to pretty expensive, and seem to require long waits. I'm not a good judge of what sells lots of 'typical' more expensive custom knives as I'm not in the market for collectables and before spending so much I want to try to figure out what I want. A lot of the knife market seems to be lots of disposable income chasing intangibles so it's more like a fashion industry than a tool industry, with some of the best examples becoming collectables, and who is to say what is art or what will be fashionable. Tools are easier to sort out until they too become fashionable, but before that a good reputation seems to sell lots of product.

 
Ken, good question. As many wonderful knifemakers make perfect knives there are many less that can make a perfect sheath to match. The wise maker will find a sheathmaker that can make a complementing perfect sheath. This is why many knifemakers need the sales assistance of dealers like myself and others or articles written about them. Many very talented makers don't have true sales ability to communicate from technical to the basic sensory motivators that cause a person to make that purchase. Again, some makers sell on name recognition only. Gee, wonder how that happened?
 
There are different reasons for buying a knife. Many these days are of the new collector type seen in every thing that is considered collectable. They buy so that they can sell if for a profit (hopefully a large one) later. They are speculators, it is their version of investing in stocks and bonds. This bunch seems to have alot more money to spend than those of us who buy to use. Also they tend to be influenced alot more buy what is the latest fad maker and his awesome background and reputation than a user or just lover of knives. If you get a great writeup in a magazine and have alsorts of credentials you will sell alot if you just make a great knife you may not.
But, as for me I buy what I think will work. Most of all I buy from a maker that I like to deal with, friendly and humble goes a long way for me. I do agree that a good sheath and especially a good carry system if it is a tactical type really makes the difference in the sale. This is only the opinion of this humble buyer of knives. I do not have great credentials to predict the market value and trends. But I will say one thing someday the bottom will drop out (like a stock market crash or the like) when that happens the only worth a knife has is what it can do functionally that will really sort them out.
 
As mentioned, "signature style" is very important. You have this in droves, Mr. Onion, so I think you realize how important it is to stand out from the crowd.

Also, frankly, self-promotion is important. Some of the hottest makers, especially the young ones, are some of the least humble and most loud-voiced. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it shows people they have confidence and pride in the work (sometimes in excess of what it warrants). It also takes the cojones to slap a big price on, IMO. People see big bucks and they often think it must be worth big bucks - in truth, it's just about having the guts to ask, I think.

Technical ability only goes so far. Sometimes I think I'd be better off working on technique less and my salesmanship more. But then, that shouldn't be what making knives is about, should it?

-Drew
 
Being a maker, I am not a collector, however I do have a few other makers knives. Why would I buy one after perfect? Well, what Rick said about Jeff Harkins knives rings true, but the most important thing for me is character and personality, both of the knives and the maker. I would like to think when I sell a knife, the cutomer is getting a little of me with the knife. (That could be bad)
smile.gif
Fact is, I usually do grind off a piece of finger on every knife. My 2 cents.

------------------
www.simonichknives.com

[This message has been edited by Rob Simonich (edited 25 September 1999).]
 
Those of you who know skinny Rob Simonich know there isn't a whole lot to go around, so if he gives a piece of himself with each knife, well, he ain't gonna be available for long!
wink.gif


I'm only chiming in because I agree with what many have already said and especially with what Rob just said.

My custom, and, er, handmade knives have great personal value (maybe not on the tables of dealers to the same extent) based upon the character of those who made them. (Though currently all of my Carson's, Perrin's and Simonich's are likely to move pretty quickly if they were for sale, which they aren't.)

Having that "pride of ownership" comes (for me)from knowing that the person who authored the knife is someone you can be proud to call a friend. Other talented makers who do not have this quality are not of interest to me. I can think of a few of them as well.

Just my two cents.

Blues



------------------
Live Free or Die

 
I agree with Mr Simonich in that a knife has to have character and personality.I've seen knives that have neither.High end pieces that are a nothing but a collage of expensive parts.
I like knives that have a "little elegance"
even tho' they are a tactical.Like a Larry Chew DA spitfire.I am drawn to his knives
because there is a little of the maker in them.
Mr Onion makes a knife that is immediatly recognized.His knives also have that "understated elegance"
All of the old makers have that also.A certain elegance.I like jigged bone and wood,and horn and all natural materials.Now the trend is G10 and carbon fiber.It is ok I guess.IMHO

------------------

have a"knife"day
 
Ken, that is an excellent question. I can't speak for anyone buy myself, but I can tell you why I buy knives from one maker over another assuming they are the same. First, the knife has to be near flawless in workmanship and I have to have either seen his work or others have stated that his knives cut and sharpen easily (I mostly use my custom knives). When a knifemaker states that his knives will outcut any others out there or that his knives are better than someone else's then I won't buy from that guy. When checking out a knifemaker I ask lots of questions and most I already know the answer..I just want to see what he says. I do want the maker to have confidence in his work though! I really have to like the guy too, I personally like a low-key person who doesn't brag and one who will answer my questions fully take his time with me and not try to brushe me aside. Really, a custom knife is much more than simply a tool you are buying a part of the knifemaker! I really think that 95% of all knifemakers are great guys and today there are so many to choose from who do outstanding work! When I started buying custom knives over 30 years ago there were not that many around who could make a great knife....that has changed!!
Drew made a good point about self-promotion...some of the newer makers are too loud-mouthed for me and I ignore them no matter how good their work is. I know that many customers are drawn to knifemakers like that but I'm not one of them. If a guy makes good knives he doesn't have to brag and blow his horn...word gets out...he may sell lots of knives at first but then his business will slow down IMO.
I have put lots of faith into what guys have stated here on Bladeforums about using such and such knives, there are really some great guys here on the forums.
BTW Ken your knives look great and have their own uniqueness and I have heard all positive talk about them!
In closing there are lots of reasons for buying knives from one maker over another, but I have tried to list most of my reasons. IMHO no matter how nice a knife is made if it doesn't cut well and re-sharpen easily I won't buy it regardless of who made it.
 
Geez Tom, Seems like enough folks are copping
Ken's designs maybe we should give him a break on the logo
smile.gif


BTW nice bowie on your home page. Did you do the engraving too?


[This message has been edited by Gus Kalanzis (edited 26 September 1999).]
 
To me, customer service skills are very important. Is the person polite, responsive and friendly? Is he knowledgeable? I don't like the idea of buying a knife, even if it is very nice, from a person who is a jerk.

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 26 September 1999).]
 
Good customer skills may help a maker sell more product but they aren't that important to me, as long as I don't abused. I don't think that it's my right to demand that every maker act like a grinning idiot just because I have a wad of cash in hand :^) If someone is good I'll still buy their product as 'people skills' don't seem to correlate with a lot of other skills, knife making skills included. I think I'm of a minority opinion though.
 
Wow,
What an extremely informative thread.I really learned alot I hope this topic continues to be discussed as the information contained if applied is invaluable.
I would also like to thank you guys for all the support/compliments. Gus, Lynn,Corduroy,Rick and any one else I may have missed thank you.
what about trend following? How important is that? And do you respect a knifemaker who follows trends,as opposed to making only what he/she is known for (speciality)?
Aloha!!Ken
 
Rob,
Now I know what that material on the blade of the Tal. Cetan was - I scraped it off & am saving it in a small vial of formaldehyde. When I get the other three I should have a good start on a finger - Dr. Frankenstein I presume?

Back on subject - the reason I buy from Rob & Kit Carson & have bought older knives from Herron, Nolen brothers, Harry Morseth is the part of themselves that is apparent in every one. You can look at them & see in the design & execution that the standards they are making these knives to are not yours, but theirs. They don't have to be fancy, but the design & finsh are "RIGHT". I pick up one of Rob's or Kit's knives it becomes part of my hand rather than a knife sitting in my hand. Others I've had similar feelings from are Dr. Batson, Willie Rigney, D'Holder, Pendray, Rodney Rodgers, Dean, Hancock, Fogg - at a show I can not walk past their tables without looking & handling their knives - I can walk by 20 other makers admiring their work but not having any urge to do more than admire at a distance. The makers whose knives give me this feeling are the ones I will buy from - it goes beyond price, workmanship & investment potential. I really don't know what exactly it is that draws a person (non-investment collector) to a particular maker's work over somebody elses but there does seem to be something intangible. I've rambled enough - no answer but my impressions.

Bill
 
Ken,


What I tends to get my attention first is the design. When I am walking through a knife show if the design does not appeal to me chances are I will not give it a second look. I also look for the materials used. If the materials do not appeal to me and the design does not interest me it's time to move on. If both of the above look good I move in for a closer look. At that point I will ask the maker what the blade steel is. If he says ats I will ask if has any other knives on the table in something else. If the answer is no it's time for me to move on. If the piece has a steel that interests me I will ask the maker if I can take a closer look at the knife. At the point I start taking are serious look at quality. Quality does come into play at an earlier point but I do not start checking grinds and shoulders etc. untill I have checked on the other things. Then of course the question is what type of knife am I looking for at that time. Sometimes I want a tactical and sometimes I do not. So for me there are several factors that come into play.

Regards,

Tom Carey
 
Ken,

For me it is, FUNCTION. If the knife doesn't look like it is going to be a good field knife for the hunting, and utility then I won't buy it. The next thing is FEEL: does it feel good in my hand, do I like the balance, and ergonomics.

I am not into how it flashy, or shiny it looks, or if it is made of the newest high tech materials. Just my two cents.

Ray 'md2020'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top