Air hammer or press for damascus?

S

stiletto

Joined
Aug 8, 1999
Messages
41
Heya all,

I just finished building my treadle hammer to help with some of the heavier work I want to do when forging. I do a little bit of damascus now, by hand and with the treadle.
When I get around to making more damascus, would I be better off building an air hammer or hydraulic press? I've seen both in action and wanted some opinions from those who have more experience with these things. Thanks!

Stiletto
 
I don't have any experience here of my own, but of the makers I know and have spoken with that do damascus it seems to be the overall opinion that a press can't be beat.

From what I've seen a press is a heck of a lot quieter and cleaner than a power hammer.

One guy told me a press isn't traditional, but I think if you're going to argue that point you better put the trip hammer away and pick up your hickory handled hammer.

Wish I had more knowledge here to help you.
Nick
 
For speed, the hammer is the ticket. For accuracy, the press.
I have both in the shop, and at this point would not give up either one.
I keep a set of slight drawing dies in my hammer, which allows me to rapidly draw billts to length for folding/stacking. In my case the hammer is the cleaner of the two, in that it tends to knock most of the scale off. My press is set up so that the dies eaisly slide on and off. For accurate manipulation, it's the way to go. When working with flat type dies in the press, there is tendancy for the scale to get "pushed" into the surface of the billet, often times to a depth that when grinding it out, the pattern will be affected. This is just one of those things that you take into consideration, and try to work around. The noise part is all in perspective, the hammer is a sharp,loud noise, and the press is a constant loud whine. Working around either, without ear plugs, is going to damage your hearing over time. Just a thought, but if blade work is all you will ever do, I'd suggest the press. If you think you might like to do other things in addition to bladesmithing, the hammer will likely be more useful.



------------------
Ed Caffrey "The Montana Bladesmith"
ABS Mastersmith
www.caffreyknives.com
 
I have used a 50# little giant, a 25# little giant, an air hammer (not a very good one), and I am building a press. I have used the press some before and the most difference is that the hammer moves the metal mostly on the outside and the press moves the metal from the inside. When using squeezing dies, it reduces the size proportionally. This is the main thing that I like, as some time in the future, I would like to try my hand at mosiac patterns. I have also been told to clean very good the area between the welds when using a press.

------------------
Ray Kirk
http://www.tah-usa.net/raker
 
Ed said all there is to say about both, the secret to good welds on a press is clean up the steel. Since we started to use the press the bad welds have dropped to almost zero.

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old pete
 
I dont need to say too much because Ed and Pete have said it best anyway. I finished my press a few months ago and sold my 50lb. little giant. The dies on the hammer were a bear to change so I finally welded on the drawing dies. It required a deep concrete slab (about 3') which I didnt do and now my floor is hammered. I dont miss it one bit. I have several die patterns and they take 5 seconds to change. My welds have never been this good before. I also use a pyrometer on the gas forge. If you would like more specs. and what I would do different next time I build one Email Me. Bruce
 
See, I knew if a guy that didn't know what the heck he was talking about replied there would be some QUALITY responses to follow.

Gotta love this forum.

I'm going to have to sneak away to the shops of some of you guys and persuade you to teach me about forging.

Thanks!
Nick

OR maybe better yet, convince Ed to have another Hammer-In, I wasn't able to go to it before.

[This message has been edited by NickWheeler (edited 06-28-2000).]
 
Maybe just one additional remark. With a press it is much easier to get very even layers throughout the whole billet. This will result in better (?), more regular designs when cutting or drilling into the billet.

In two weeks i will have the possibility to try a 800 (eight hundret!) ton press with dies up to 8 by 1.5 ft. It has a really large induction oven in close range and there is a possibility to use a crane and to hot roll the billets, too. Guess what size my billets will have??

Achim
 
that's one big press! i have access Piranha 36 ton ironworker, it's a shear, that i use for cutting bolster, and blade stock to lenght. it's also a press for punching holes, but i can get those flat dies for. it's a very quiet machine, becuase my dad lined the inside with sound insulating material.
 
800 hundred TON! Achim, all you would have to do is get the billet "warm" to weld it.
Sounds like loads of fun!!
 
Yeah, sounds like fun to me, too, as long as you can keep your fingers out of it. And why heating the steel at all???
biggrin.gif


I'll keep you updated.

Achim

 
Achim, I read where Granpa Miers, has welded damascus billets with a 200 ton press,at 1200f. the key is clean and flat layers. You might be right, why heat?
 
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