Al Mar Sere 2020 VERY hard to unlock!

[moabblade]

I just got the AMK 2200. Which is the 3" blade in D2. I really like the knife. But the liner lock is very very stiff.

The lock sits about center of the blade thickness. When locked open. But I can only get the lock about 2/3rds off the blade before having to apply a lot of pressure to get it to unlock. Doesn't feel like it's getting hung up. Just a very thick liner. That is very hard to move.

I adjusted the pivot tension. The blade flips open fine. Just trying to decide whether to deal with it or exchange it? Is this normal? I've never had a knife be this stiff in the liner lock.

Going to try the pencil lead trick. Or take it apart and remove a very tiny amount from the lock end. Keeping it flat. It doesn't feel like it's going to get easier to unlock in its own. And the liners are thicker than any other knife I've owned. Which I love, because the entire knife seems overbuilt and rugged. But man. It's killing my thumb. It's also rather sharp edged on the liner.

 

[jbmonkey]

yeah try the graphite and maybe sand down the sharp edge to slightly round it off...

edit part: sharp edge being the part of the liner you push with your thumb. so it isnt so unpleasant pushing the liner open to close it.
don't mess with the liner tang engagement geometry. that would be a really bad idear.

 

[BJE]

From your description, it sounds like possibly the relief cut isn’t deep enough. Is it the initial disengagement that’s too stiff, or the entire range of motion?

I would be hesitant to remove any metal from the lock face before being sure what’s causing the problem, you can’t put it back once it’s been removed.

 

[moabblade]

The lock face is in the exact middle of the blade base (I don't know what that part of a folder is called) when the blade is open and in the locked position. Which seems correct.

But when you try to unlock it it gets progressively harder to move as it gets to the liner side edge of the blade base. Meaning the lock pretty stops at the last edge of the blade base. And without a lot of pressure it won't move off of the blade base and unlock. Like a lot of pressure. It hurts your thumb.

The lock also has a sharp edge. Which doesn't help. And a small opening to fit your thumb against the lock. So your also just getting the top edge of the lock. Not much purchase there.

But I'm wondering if it is so far out of spec that I should exchange it? It really feels like either the spring in the lock is way to strong. Or the geometry is not matching up so badly. That the lock can barely be pressed far enough to the side to release.

I'll try to upload some pics to imgur.

 

[moabblade]

https://imgur.com/a/g54QKXb

The first pic is the lock in locked position. The second pic shows how far I get the lock to move into the unlocked position. At this point it requires a major amount of pressure to it move off the end of the blade base.

Ignore the black stuff on the blade base. That's just oil and break in dust. My first action was to adjust the pivot, oil it and worked it to try and break it in. It opens fine. It's the getting it to unlock part.

 

[AntDog]

If it doesn’t work how it should, send it back. That said, you might not be able to after jacking with it. Should be kind of a “take it out of the box and go nope, this sucks and I’m sending it back” scenario.

 

[killgar]

Not being able to examine the knife it's not possible for me to say for sure what is wrong with it, but based on your description it sounds to me like perhaps the lock was bent too far over, and is creating increased resistance as a result. I had a similar experience with a liner lock just recently-

I have customized 13 Cold Steel Ti-lite 6's (liner locks), and 12 of them were relatively easy to unlock. But I recently had one that was very difficult to unlock. The problem wasn't "lock stick" (lock binding against the tang of the blade), but rather, it took an unusual amount of effort to push the lock aside when unlocking the knife. It was a real thumb-buster.

So I took the knife apart and measured how far the lock had been bent higher than the rest of the liner. Measuring at the pivot area of the liner the lock was 5/16ths of an inch high. I measured the locks of a few other Ti-lites that were easy to unlock, and the height of the locks were 3/16ths of an inch high. So I concluded that the cause of the problem was the lock being bent too far out.

I secured the problem liner in a vise, and carefully bent the lock back until it measured 3/16ths high. After I reassembled the knife I could unlock it just as easily as all the others. Of course these measurements I've described of the height of the lock bend are specific to the Ti-lite 6 and have no relevance to your knife.


Now all that being said, if this is in fact the issue you are facing, although it might be possible for you to fix it yourself just as I did, you might also damage the knife and ruin it. This is the risk of modifying a major part of a knife. I'm the kind of person who just has to try and fix something myself, but if you have any doubts about your ability, or if you don't want to possibly risk ruining the knife, don't modify it, don't even take it apart, but instead take the advice already given and send it back.

If you do decide to try and fix it yourself, what I STRONGLY suggest that you NOT do is remove any metal from the contact surface of the lock. Again, I can't say for certain what the problem is with your knife, but it doesn't sound to me like that is the solution, and altering the contact surface of the lock can be a fast way to ruin a knife.


And just for the hell of it, here are some pics of my modified SERE 2000 (VG10/Moki version). I removed the upper handle "hump" above the pivot area, enlarged the lock release/thumbstud notch, replaced the two-sided thumbstud with a single-sided one, and sanded the inside edges of the liners to remove the sharp edges you referred to.

 

[Chuck_Nunface]

The 2020 sere is not a good knife.

 

[Greggy]

The lock bar should not engage the blade tang at its center. What you have is sometimes called late lockup, or something similar. Ideally in my experience you should have about 2/3 to 3/4 of the lock bar engaging the blade tang, with the remaining portion not engaging the blade tang or falling short of it. This gives you plenty of automatic adjustments if and when the blade tang and/or lock bar engagement surfaces wear down over time.

 

[moabblade]

If it doesn’t work how it should, send it back. That said, you might not be able to after jacking with it. Should be kind of a “take it out of the box and go nope, this sucks and I’m sending it back” scenario.

You mean oil it, work the action and adjust the pivot screw? Lol!

Sending it back.

 

[AntDog]

You mean oil it, work the action and adjust the pivot screw? Lol!

Sending it back.

You mentioned something about “break in dust”, correct? So it isn’t exactly in the same condition you bought it in.

I’d still send it back if I were in your shoes, but they may send it right back and say it’s yours. Lol

You might want to try to track down a Sere 2K. You’ll have zero problems with one of those.

 

[moabblade]

Not being able to examine the knife it's not possible for me to say for sure what is wrong with it, but based on your description it sounds to me like perhaps the lock was bent too far over, and is creating increased resistance as a result. I had a similar experience with a liner lock just recently-

I have customized 13 Cold Steel Ti-lite 6's (liner locks), and 12 of them were relatively easy to unlock. But I recently had one that was very difficult to unlock. The problem wasn't "lock stick" (lock binding against the tang of the blade), but rather, it took an unusual amount of effort to push the lock aside when unlocking the knife. It was a real thumb-buster.

So I took the knife apart and measured how far the lock had been bent higher than the rest of the liner. Measuring at the pivot area of the liner the lock was 5/16ths of an inch high. I measured the locks of a few other Ti-lites that were easy to unlock, and the height of the locks were 3/16ths of an inch high. So I concluded that the cause of the problem was the lock being bent too far out.

I secured the problem liner in a vise, and carefully bent the lock back until it measured 3/16ths high. After I reassembled the knife I could unlock it just as easily as all the others. Of course these measurements I've described of the height of the lock bend are specific to the Ti-lite 6 and have no relevance to your knife.


Now all that being said, if this is in fact the issue you are facing, although it might be possible for you to fix it yourself just as I did, you might also damage the knife and ruin it. This is the risk of modifying a major part of a knife. I'm the kind of person who just has to try and fix something myself, but if you have any doubts about your ability, or if you don't want to possibly risk ruining the knife, don't modify it, don't even take it apart, but instead take the advice already given and send it back.

If you do decide to try and fix it yourself, what I STRONGLY suggest that you NOT do is remove any metal from the contact surface of the lock. Again, I can't say for certain what the problem is with your knife, but it doesn't sound to me like that is the solution, and altering the contact surface of the lock can be a fast way to ruin a knife.


And just for the hell of it, here are some pics of my modified SERE 2000 (VG10/Moki version). I removed the upper handle "hump" above the pivot area, enlarged the lock release/thumbstud notch, replaced the two-sided thumbstud with a single-sided one, and sanded the inside edges of the liners to remove the sharp edges you referred to.

Thank you for this very helpful post! That was very generous of you. I appreciate your time.

I'm sure it's the bend in the lock. Like you say. I'll be sending it back.

But I'm interested in the mods you did on your originally 2000. If the the knife I get in exchange has a good lock. I plan to work this knife a bit. To improve it's few shortcomings.

1) What did you use to smooth the sharpness of the liners edges? Sandpaper and a block? Grit?

2) I want to disassemble it. Smooth the washers and make sure they are placed in the correct orientation by which side was punched. Let me know if that's a bad idea for some reason? I'll smooth the liner edges at the same time obviously.

3) Once I align the blade center using the pivot screw. This knife is a bit stiffer opening. As it tightens up a bit. Which will most likely correct itself with wear in and polishing the washers. The flipper knob (forgive my lack of proper terminology) is quite polished and sharp edged. And has no ridges manufactured on it. Like a lot of flippers. For proper grip when opening. Which has my finger slipping off of it slightly. And rubbing across the sharp edges. Are there any tutorials on how to create a better grip there? (I think it's called jimping?)

I could cut ridges and polish them like a typical flipper knob or like you see on a lot of liner locks where your thumb pushes it to the side? Seems easy enough to do by hand. If your careful and take your time.

I'm not going to send it out to a machine shop. But it would be a much better knife with jimping on that knob. And of course smoothing the other sharp edges like along the liner lock.

Or I could add some kind of skate tape type abrasive to that surface? Just an idea. Would not last long without a good adhesive.

4) Lastly, the oval opening cut out on the liner and scale on the opposite side of the lock (that gives your thumb access to the liner lock) is quite small. Because of this the purchase you get on the liner lock is fairly small. I've seen videos tutorials on opening that up wider. To fit more of your thumb in there. I don't know if I would attempt this. But I build rifle and have a fair amount of metal working experience. I think it would be a much better knife if that were done to it.

But maybe if I just exchange this for an easier moving lock. Smooth the liner lock and maybe even add some jimping there. It won't be necessary to open that access point. I'll of course try that first.

I really do like this knife for the price point and it's design. The D2 steel is nice and thick. And the knife has a solid, sturdy feel to it. Compared to other knives in the $50-$60 category. And I enjoy working with metal and improving the tools I use.

Thanks again for the reply. Very informative.

 

[moabblade]

You mentioned something about “break in dust”, correct? So it isn’t exactly in the same condition you bought it in.

I’d still send it back if I were in your shoes, but they may send it right back and say it’s yours. Lol

You might want to try to track down a Sere 2K. You’ll have zero problems with one of those.

When I say "break in dust" I mean the tiny amount of black shown in the above pics I posted. I could not get them to post except as a link to where they are stored on imgur. I think it's the post I linked in our exchange here. It's literally just from the tiny amount of oil I added to the pivot. And about 50-75 times if me simply opening and closing the knife. It wiped out with a qtip. I didn't use any machinery or file or sand paper on anything.

But I here what you're saying. It's going back before I even take it apart. Hopefully the replacement will have an easier bend to the liner lock. If so, I'll take the time to massage the sharp edges, hopefully making opening and locking/unlocking as smooth as possible.

It's got potential. I really like the knife. I think they just needed to spend a tiny bit more time and money taking off some of the sharp edges and maybe adding some jimping to the lock and flipper knob. And the lock would be much easier to operate if they had made the access opening just a bit bigger.

 

[AntDog]

When I say "break in dust" I mean the tiny amount of black shown in the above pics I posted. I could not get them to post except as a link to where they are stored on imgur. I think it's the post I linked in our exchange here. It's literally just from the tiny amount of oil I added to the pivot. And about 50-75 times if me simply opening and closing the knife. It wiped out with a qtip. I didn't use any machinery or file or sand paper on anything.

But I here what you're saying. It's going back before I even take it apart. Hopefully the replacement will have an easier bend to the liner lock. If so, I'll take the time to massage the sharp edges, hopefully making opening and locking/unlocking as smooth as possible.

It's got potential. I really like the knife. I think they just needed to spend a tiny bit more time and money taking off some of the sharp edges and maybe adding some jimping to the lock and flipper knob. And the lock would be much easier to operate if they had made the access opening just a bit bigger.

Those are all mods you can probably do, and you should if you see potential in it. Here’s hoping the new one’s better.

I know it sucks working on a new knife, but that’s sometimes part of the fun. Making it “yours”.

 

[killgar]

Thank you for this very helpful post! That was very generous of you. I appreciate your time.

I'm sure it's the bend in the lock. Like you say. I'll be sending it back.

But I'm interested in the mods you did on your originally 2000. If the the knife I get in exchange has a good lock. I plan to work this knife a bit. To improve it's few shortcomings.

1) What did you use to smooth the sharpness of the liners edges? Sandpaper and a block? Grit?

2) I want to disassemble it. Smooth the washers and make sure they are placed in the correct orientation by which side was punched. Let me know if that's a bad idea for some reason? I'll smooth the liner edges at the same time obviously.

3) Once I align the blade center using the pivot screw. This knife is a bit stiffer opening. As it tightens up a bit. Which will most likely correct itself with wear in and polishing the washers. The flipper knob (forgive my lack of proper terminology) is quite polished and sharp edged. And has no ridges manufactured on it. Like a lot of flippers. For proper grip when opening. Which has my finger slipping off of it slightly. And rubbing across the sharp edges. Are there any tutorials on how to create a better grip there? (I think it's called jimping?)

I could cut ridges and polish them like a typical flipper knob or like you see on a lot of liner locks where your thumb pushes it to the side? Seems easy enough to do by hand. If your careful and take your time.

I'm not going to send it out to a machine shop. But it would be a much better knife with jimping on that knob. And of course smoothing the other sharp edges like along the liner lock.

Or I could add some kind of skate tape type abrasive to that surface? Just an idea. Would not last long without a good adhesive.

4) Lastly, the oval opening cut out on the liner and scale on the opposite side of the lock (that gives your thumb access to the liner lock) is quite small. Because of this the purchase you get on the liner lock is fairly small. I've seen videos tutorials on opening that up wider. To fit more of your thumb in there. I don't know if I would attempt this. But I build rifle and have a fair amount of metal working experience. I think it would be a much better knife if that were done to it.

But maybe if I just exchange this for an easier moving lock. Smooth the liner lock and maybe even add some jimping there. It won't be necessary to open that access point. I'll of course try that first.

I really do like this knife for the price point and it's design. The D2 steel is nice and thick. And the knife has a solid, sturdy feel to it. Compared to other knives in the $50-$60 category. And I enjoy working with metal and improving the tools I use.

Thanks again for the reply. Very informative.

You're welcome.

For smoothing the edges of the liners I'd recommend 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. It doesn't take much sanding to remove the sharp edges. I just used my thumb and fingers, no sanding block.

In regards to washers, I don't know what the quality of Al Mar washers is today, but my SERE was one of the smoothest opening knives I've ever received from the factory (one of the sharpest too). The blade flies open with a light flick of the thumbstud, even with a snug pivot. The washers in my knife are white, so they are either nylon or Teflon (I'd wager Teflon), but they were great right out of the box.

As far as adding jimping to the flipper tab, if I were going to do it I'd use diamond needle files (the ones pictured below). I have two sets of these and consider them to be indispensable for some of the knife work I do. You can find them at Amazon by searching for their item number FIL-974.00 (the brand is Eurotool). They may be available elsewhere as well (I see that a Walmart vendor has them for half the price of the Amazon vendor).

Lastly, the lock-release/thumbstud notch. My main reason for enlarging that was to give me better access to the thumbstud during opening. I never had an issue with accessing the lock. If you receive a new knife with a properly functioning lock, you may not need to enlarge the notch (I believe your model has no thumbstud).

Good luck, both in getting a good replacement knife, and in performing whatever mods you choose to make.

 

[moabblade]

Those are all mods you can probably do, and you should if you see potential in it. Here’s hoping the new one’s better.

I know it sucks working on a new knife, but that’s sometimes part of the fun. Making it “yours”.

Totally part of the fun! And I really like this knife. I think if I can get an example without the impossibly tight liner lock. I can smooth it out and make a very good EDC out of this.

 

[moabblade]

You're welcome.

For smoothing the edges of the liners I'd recommend 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. It doesn't take much sanding to remove the sharp edges. I just used my thumb and fingers, no sanding block.

In regards to washers, I don't know what the quality of Al Mar washers is today, but my SERE was one of the smoothest opening knives I've ever received from the factory (one of the sharpest too). The blade flies open with a light flick of the thumbstud, even with a snug pivot. The washers in my knife are white, so they are either nylon or Teflon (I'd wager Teflon), but they were great right out of the box.

As far as adding jimping to the flipper tab, if I were going to do it I'd use diamond needle files (the ones pictured below). I have two sets of these and consider them to be indispensable for some of the knife work I do. You can find them at Amazon by searching for their item number FIL-974.00. They may be available elsewhere as well.

Lastly, the lock-release/thumbstud notch. My main reason for enlarging that was to give me better access to the thumbstud during opening. I never had an issue with accessing the lock. If you receive a new knife with a properly functioning lock, you may not need to enlarge the notch (I believe your model has no thumbstud).

Good luck, both in getting a good replacement knife, and in performing whatever mods you choose to make.

Thank you so much. I have a similar set of files. But would a checkering file work better? I would like to add jimping to the liner lock and the flipper tab. I know the flipper tab is a tiny area. So maybe a checkering file would be to big or combursome. But having evenly placed grooves would be an advantage to making each groove by hand.

Your right mine does not have a thumb stud. But I won't attempt opening the access opening to the liner lock unless it's still an issue. Hopefully the replacement will have a usable liner lock. And after smoothing the liner edges and maybe adding some jimping it won't be necessary to open that access opening any further. Like you say.

I think the washers are phosphor bronze. They are least that color. I have not found anything in Al Mars website or online concerning what they are made of. It was only slightly grinding when I first received it. And once the knife was opened and closed several times that largely went away. But when I take it apart to do these other things. I will double check the washer orientation. And give them some polishing on a fine grit stone.

Assuming wider (not thicker) washers are better. Is their a larger OD washer I can go with that has the same ID? Just trying to maximize my improvements while I've got it taken apart.

Probably won't do it this go around. But how hard is it to make micarta replacement scales? I've found no one making them for this knife. And have not located anyone making custom scales. I assume having custom ones made would be more than the knifes purchase price. $54. But using the original ones as templates it does seem that hard. But I know nothing about working with micarta. I have changed a few other knives over to aftermarket micarta scales. And really prefer it. Although I don't mind the stock (plastic/g10?) ones on this knife.

 

[killgar]

Thank you so much. I have a similar set of files. But would a checkering file work better? I would like to add jimping to the liner lock and the flipper tab. I know the flipper tab is a tiny area. So maybe a checkering file would be to big or combursome. But having evenly placed grooves would be an advantage to making each groove by hand.

Your right mine does not have a thumb stud. But I won't attempt opening the access opening to the liner lock unless it's still an issue. Hopefully the replacement will have a usable liner lock. And after smoothing the liner edges and maybe adding some jimping it won't be necessary to open that access opening any further. Like you say.

I think the washers are phosphor bronze. They are least that color. I have not found anything in Al Mars website or online concerning what they are made of. It was only slightly grinding when I first received it. And once the knife was opened and closed several times that largely went away. But when I take it apart to do these other things. I will double check the washer orientation. And give them some polishing on a fine grit stone.

Assuming wider (not thicker) washers are better. Is their a larger OD washer I can go with that has the same ID? Just trying to maximize my improvements while I've got it taken apart.

Probably won't do it this go around. But how hard is it to make micarta replacement scales? I've found no one making them for this knife. And have not located anyone making custom scales. I assume having custom ones made would be more than the knifes purchase price. $54. But using the original ones as templates it does seem that hard. But I know nothing about working with micarta. I have changed a few other knives over to aftermarket micarta scales. And really prefer it. Although I don't mind the stock (plastic/g10?) ones on this knife.

I have no experience with checkering files, but the flipper tab of the knife will be hardened steel, so you might want to check first to see if checkering files are suitable for such material. That is why I recommended the diamond needle files, they are suitable for use on hardened steel.

If the washers look like bronze phosphor I would assume that they are. The grittiness you experienced could just be the result of "factory grit" in the pivot. Disassembly and a good cleaning might solve that.

Larger diameter washers will create more friction as a result of more surface area contact between blade/washer and washer/liner. Also, a larger diameter washer on the lock side might interfere with unlocking the knife (lock hitting the larger washer). But if you are interested in different washers, usaknifemaker.com has a large variety (bronze phosphor, Teflon, Nylatron, nylon). I don't know what size you knife requires.

As far as making new handles, yeah, I'd say it would cost more than the knife is worth to have someone else do it. I don't personally see any advantage of micarta over the stock G10 scales, unless you want something smooth and polished. The original textured G10 scales should be as grippy, or more grippy than any micarta.

I've made handle scales for several knives using a few different materials, including canvas micarta (a few examples of micarta below), and if you are going to do it yourself, here is some advice-

1. I would use the liners as a template, that way the holes are easier to access for marking with a marker or scribe.

2. Drill each of the screw/lanyard holes in the micarta one at a time before you trace and cut the handle scale shape out. After drilling the first hole (I start with the pivot hole) secure the micarta to the liner using stock hardware, and mark the next hole for drilling, drill that hole, and so on.

Make sure when you mark the spot on the micarta for the first hole that there is extra micarta around the border of the liner (around 1/4"). This creates a margin for error if the first hole isn't drilled in the exact correct spot.

3. After the holes are all drilled, attach the micarta to the liner and trace the outline of the scale. If the scales are cut and shaped before being drilled, and if the holes are not all in the proper spots, the scale won't fit the liner properly, and the piece of micarta will be wasted.

4. Be careful of micarta dust. You don't want to breathe it or have it in your home. It's not cyanide, but it's still not something you want in your lungs.

There are various online sources for micarta, I bought my supply from usaknifemaker.com.

 

[AntDog]

I have no experience with checkering files, but the flipper tab of the knife will be hardened steel, so you might want to check first to see if checkering files are suitable for such material. That is why I recommended the diamond needle files, they are suitable for use on hardened steel.

If the washers look like bronze phosphor I would assume that they are. The grittiness you experienced could just be the result of "factory grit" in the pivot. Disassembly and a good cleaning might solve that.

Larger diameter washers will create more friction as a result of more surface area contact between blade/washer and washer/liner. Also, a larger diameter washer on the lock side might interfere with unlocking the knife (lock hitting the larger washer). But if you are interested in different washers, usaknifemaker.com has a large variety (bronze phosphor, Teflon, Nylatron, nylon). I don't know what size you knife requires.

As far as making new handles, yeah, I'd say it would cost more than the knife is worth to have someone else do it. I don't personally see any advantage of micarta over the stock G10 scales, unless you want something smooth and polished. The original textured G10 scales should be as grippy, or more grippy than any micarta.

I've made handle scales for several knives using a few different materials, including canvas micarta (a few examples below), and if you are going to do it yourself, here is some advice-

1. I would use the liners as a template, that way the holes are easier to access for marking with a marker or scribe.

2. When you trace the handle scale outlines on the micarta slabs, leave plenty of border around the edge of the trace, at least 1/4" (more if you can), then drill all of the holes first before cutting out the scales. This way you'll have extra material all around the edges in case the holes come out slightly off.

3. After the holes are drilled match the holes of the scales to the liners, check the trace, then perform final shaping of the scales to match the liners.

4. Be careful of micarta dust. You don't want to breathe it or have it in your home. It's not cyanide, but it's still not something you want in your lungs.

There are various online sources for micarta, I bought my supply from usaknifemaker.com.

Those are damn cool, man. Love it every time you post em.

 

[killgar]

Those are damn cool, man. Love it every time you post em.

Thanks AntDog .