Aldo 1084 1/4" Cleaver

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clofgreen

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Sep 28, 2016
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I've successfully made 1/8" and 3/16" blades from Aldo's 1084 using a charcoal forge, a magnet and canola oil. I'm preparing to make a cleaver with an 8" x 4" x 1/4" blade. In previous posts I've been cautioned about using canola for 1/4" stock but have seen in this and other forums people who say it is ok. Not knowing who really knows for sure and who to believe I thought I'd ask the question to anyone who has actually done this successfully. I should mention I'm cheap and have a hard time forking over $ for quench oil but will do it if I really must.

Craig
 
Given the precision you are going to get in your first knife with a charcoal forge and a magnet (which is none), I would say any oilish quenching medium should suffice. I have used burt engine oil for quenching and, while I am no expert at all (just made half a docen knives or so), I can tell you I had no issues with it. They got hard (file skates on the surface) and after the tempering process I ended up with nice blades. I was using 5160 (leaf sping steel) in up to 6mm thickness.

Just give it a try and see how it goes.
 
Mikel_24 said:
Given the precision you are going to get in your first knife with a charcoal forge and a magnet (which is none), I would say any oilish quenching medium should suffice. I have used burt engine oil for quenching and, while I am no expert at all (just made half a docen knives or so), I can tell you I had no issues with it. They got hard (file skates on the surface) and after the tempering process I ended up with nice blades. I was using 5160 (leaf sping steel) in up to 6mm thickness.

Just give it a try and see how it goes.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply Mikel, but I am specifically looking for people who have actually tried quenching Aldo's 1084 1/4" steel in canola oil. Seems a shame to waste time and resources on a try and see how it goes experiment if others have already tried it.

Any takers?
 
I have been using canola for O1 for the last year and have had no issues. you are going to temper to Rc58-60 for a cleaver anyway, so the point or two of hardness you may loose should not make a difference. good luck
 
I don't understand why canola would be suitable without exception for .188 and somehow unsuitable for .25 stock.

The only argument I can think of, is that 1084 is shallow hardening enough that you may not get a through hardened blade with canola and the thicker stock. Which is moot if you do any pre-grinding. I don't use 1084 often, and I don't use canola oil. While it may not be ideal for a .25 thick cleaver you want to be through hardened completely, I can't think of a logical reason why it would not be entirely suitable to have a fully hard edge, and a somewhat softer core in the full thickness portion of the blade.

I think you would be more concerned with the capacity of the quench tank and making sure you have sufficient amount for a blade of that mass.
 
It may auto hamon. It'll probably auto hamon. If that's ok, then you are good to go. As long as you partially grind in the bevels, and have enough quenchant volume, you should be fine. On bigger pieces, I like to have 5 gallons. I don't use canola oil anymore, so I haven't done a large piece in canola myself, but I can't see why the thinner parts won't fully harden.
 
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I know at least with 1095 and canola 3/16 stock (not ground into a knife, just flat bar) won't harden in canola. A file still cut it. It needed a water quench for that.
I don't use 1084, but I wouldn't be surprised if you needed a water quench to get it to full hardness.
That said I usually clay or edge quench a cleaver anyways, so I personally wouldn't worry about it
 
Canola will work just fine. I've hardened plenty of 1095 blades and 1080 blades...some 3/16" thick with a canola quench. The edge, as long as it's ground down to a proper thinness and you get the steel good and hot prior to the quench will get nice and hard on your 1084. It will make a very good, very tough knife...like you could chop nails with it if you wanted to.
 
I agree, 120F canola will be fine. Just make sure you have enough of it. I would say for a cleaver you want a minimum of 2-3 gallons of quenchant.
 
Thank you all for your responses and sorry I haven't acknowledged your help sooner; three family funerals this summer kinda put a halt to my knife making. But I have nearly finished beveling the blade (with a hand file no less!) and will soon heat treat using 3 gallons of canola oil. I will post the results.

Craig
 
I have done 1075 1/4" thick by 2.5" wide bevels in canola. I ground bevels to about .060 before hardening and like said above it did auto hamon which was fine for me.
 
I have quenched, 1/4" thick 1084, 1080, 1070 and O1 in 125 ° canola to good effect. i was using an electric HT oven however.
 
Yes, 1084 is a shallow hardening steel, but not quite so shallow hardening as really low manganese steels like 1095/W1/W2.
 
The plus on a wide and thick spine blade is that it will likely auto-hamon. This looks great. Once in the quench, hold under the oil for at least 30 seconds. Then pull out, check for any warp that needs a quick adjustment, and put back in to finish cooling for at least two minutes. If you pull it too soon, and/or let it air cool after dropping below 900F, it may run the excess heat back to the thin edge and auto-temper to a too soft edge.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
The plus on a wide and thick spine blade is that it will likely auto-hamon. This looks great. Once in the quench, hold under the oil for at least 30 seconds. Then pull out, check for any warp that needs a quick adjustment, and put back in to finish cooling for at least two minutes. If you pull it too soon, and/or let it air cool after dropping below 900F, it may run the excess heat back to the thin edge and auto-temper to a too soft edge.
Click to expand...
auto-hamon equals auto "differential hardening" which is not a bad thing. Bill Moran once said that W2 is almost as tough as 5160 and takes and holds a better edge. I think that the "auto" feature is the reason for the toughness in big blades in particular. I have never found the need to differentially harden or draw back the spine on a burly W2 blade.
 
I've quenched 3/16" 1084 in canola for a knife i use solely to split wood. I've hammered (with a hammer, not a wooden baton) that knife through about 5 hardwood logs about "fireplace" length and a foot in diameter to split them into 1/8"-1/4" handle material. I think i sharpened it once. It hasn't suffered any damage. I think it's perfect.
 
Thanks to all who replied to this thread. This is a great forum.

I have to say making my cleaver was a total success. Heated to very uniform glow and no magnetism in a hardwood charcoal fire, quenched in 2 gallons of canola oil and heated it at 440 degrees for two hours x2 and I have knife that took and holds an edge very well. I'm using it to chop up garden and yard waste for the compost bin. Works tons better than the machete I was using. I mean, this baby is beefy and the weight makes going through thick material so much easier. I decided to keep the burnt-on oil to protect against rusting plus I was too lazy to try to sand it off. It's not a pretty knife but given my lack of power tools (the only power tools I used was an angle grinder and old craftsman sander) I'd say it's a real thing of beauty.

(Photo not showing for some reason)
 
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