All things traditional.

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Oct 2, 2004
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I could be wrong in this, as I know I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandalier, but it seems to me that old traditional stuff is making a comeback all across the board. Why do I think this?

I seem to be noticing more "younger" guys on this forum with the same overall general theme- they got, or are getting a bit bored with the tactical or modern knives and discovered the traditional pocket knife. The appeal of black plastic and never changing bead blasted stainless steel wears thin after a while. But its not just knives, its alot of things.

I look at the cars and I see alot of the retro style autos are very popular. The several year old style of the "new" beatle from Volkswagon, and the "new" Mini Cooper, not to mention the PT Cruiser based on the front end of a '37 Ford. Anologue style watches are taking the market back from the digital, and in shooting the fastest growing sport is the the cowboy action shoots. Tom Sellech has done well bringing back the western with all it's Shakespear morality of right and wrong. These days it seems like nostalgia has a strong selling point.

Certainly Case, and Queen have done well with old style knives with real wood and bone and stag handles. I know it can't just be old farts like me, rejecting this cold modern age by voting with our wallets. So what fuels this urge to have something from an earlier era?

I know in my case its something comforting about the feel and sometimes the smell and memories. Having to follow the ritual of caring for something made out of carbon steel and wood reminds us of long ago connections. When I clean my rifle after a range session, and I wipe the blued steel with an oily rag, or rub a little linseed oil on the walnut, it brings back very good memories. My dad loved his Hudson Hornet, and every Saturday morning he would clean it, and rub a little linseed oil on the real wood trim inside. To me the smell of linseed oil is a trigger for such a flood of memories, from dad, to grandad and the Lady Anne. One of the jobs on the boat was to rub down the woodwork with linseed oil. On a workboat shiney varnished finishes don't last long. Ropes rubbing, crab traps scraping, oystr shells scratching, wears it out for water to start damaging the wood. But linseed oil rubbed into the wood protects it. These days many decades later, I can put a bit of linseed oil on a finger tip to rub into a knife handle, and the smell of it recalls such vivid memories I can smell the bay.

Maybe the ritual of caring for something makes us slow down in this high speed hectic world. The plastic and stainless knife won't suffer if its neglected. But the carbon and natural handles on a traditional knife will suffer givin the same lack of care. And having to deliberatly use two hands to open a knife may give us a moment to think about what we are doing. To reflect as we do.

Or is it that the hand feels quality, no matter what the hype and advertising tell us? I really do believe that the modern knife is a product with 90% of the design being for it to be an easy to mass produce item at a lower cost to the manufacturer. Just one blade per unit, molded handles that cost pennies, and torx or allen screws to put it together without the need for experianced cuttlers to set rivits and pins.

I guess it does'nt matter why they are getting popular again. I enjoy seeing the younger crowd coming to appreatiate the appeal of a nice barlow, or maybe a peanut. In time they will build memories of thier own, and hand down the knives to thier kids. Or Grandkids. Every Sunday morning after church, my grandson Ryan and I have this ritual. After the go-to-meeting duds are hung up, we take our pocket knives and a couple of pipe cleaners and clean out any lint and stuff, and put a little drop of 3-In-One oil in the joint. Ryan treats this chore with all the seriousness of a major operation, and to him it is. I hope one day he can do this with his children and so on.
 
jacknife,
As always, very thoughtfully and well stated. I was just having this retro discussion with my wife and kids yesterday after we all came into the house to have lunch after the chores were finished. I made the statement somewhere in the discussion, "I wonder why America has this sudden urge for all these things that we had from years gone by.?" My 11 year old son Colton says without hesitation, "Because everything was built so much better in the olden days, Dad!" I stopped and blurted out some hardy laughter, turned to my wife and said, "See honey, the concept is so simple even a child gets it!"

I thought of something else as well after Colton's statement, and which you just commented on having to do with pocketknives. The tactical knives today are exactly as you describe, dull, cheap and so easy to build anyone can do it.. Not trained cutlers who have spent half a lifetime to perfect there trade. My point is that those tacticals, for the most part are disposable. So when the knife wears out before the blade wears down, you just chuck it.. Like so many disposable lighters.. Disposable pens.. etc.. So maybe, just maybe, Americans want quality in the goods that they buy again..?
 
Living in the big city is wearing us out! Traffic, constant advertising, overcrowding, cheap merchandise, and overall feeling of everything being "easy and disposable" is causing me to look at older, proven designs. "Hurry up and throw it away" is the siren song of the modern world. I'm out of tacticals for good!
 
Don't be too influenced by what you read on BF. This is a tiny segment of the knife buying public and definitely not a typical segment. Traditional folders have lost market share every year for as long as I've been in the business (9 years.) Furthermore the quality of traditional folders has steadily declined as the manufacturers try their best to compete against low priced Asian competition.

Yes, Case, Queen and others still make good products that are popular but they are really niche markets in the U.S. I can assure you Ontario views the product line with that name on it as more important than the one with Queen on it.

What has increased in popularity is the higher end segments of the traditional folder business and this is due specifically to the growth of the internet where people can find some of the smaller brands and lower prices. 9 years ago it was pretty hard to sell a traditional folder for over $100 but it happens pretty frequently these days - it even happens with brands like Case.

So it is easy to see how Jackknife reaches his conclusions. His interest is similar to that of others in this forum and that would be the higher end of the traditional market.
 
I think that there are a couple of issues going on that influence these perceptions. Many of the people that I know that went over to traditionals went through a trial period of more modern designs first. The purchase of the latest "new" knives was driven by disappointment with the last "new" knife. Once people who go traditional find an old design that works, they tend to stick with that pattern for a particular use. Many modern designs claim to be a radical departure or a great leap forward to boost sales, so that the latest thing is purchased mostly as a novelty, until the next revolutionary design comes along. Another major factor is the disposability factor that has been spoken about already. The trend toward the traditional is also a sign of maturity in users that have figured out what they actually need as opposed to those who buy what some sales pitch tells them they want. Being people who prefer things to have a degree of durablity, a lot of traditionalists that are not collectors don't generate sales like the segment of the market looking for the latest innovation for its own sake, so the trend Jackknife refers to isn't really about number of units sold, it is about long term satisfaction (which is difficult to measure in terms of sales, since satisfied customers don't buy as much product). Just my 2 pennies worth.
 
Certain things have a class, style and utility that is timeless. They stand out among all the other objects in their category, no matter how many years have passed. I can pick up and admire the build quality or workmanship in some of the modern knife designs, but the materials and the very designs themselves just don't have the attraction of the classic items. The only area where I see any real advantage of the "modern" knife designs is in the self defense weapon area; an assisted opener or automatic on a pocket clip would be very quick to slip out and pop open. For any other purposes, I'd just as soon use the classics. They work, it's as simple as that.
 
This story made me think of something a friend a I have discussed numerous times in the past.. I collected vintage Winchester rifles for quite a few years
as did my friend. There is something about a 60-90 year old rifle that brings a lot of things to mind. First the workmanship, the quality of materials used and the fact that these guns have a fair amount of history to them. Someone has carried, hunted with and made their own memories with them prior to me owning them. I get a real special feeling everytime I hunt with these rifles.
The younger generation now wants stainless and synthetic stocks. They don't have the interest in these old guns. So the market range of people interestd in buying these guns now has dramatically decreased. A lot of the older collectors have passed on and a lot of times the family doesn't want the guns. They just want the money from them. I'm sure that in time the generation will change, I hope... Boy after writing this I feel really old, I'M ONLY 45.. I guess when I was in my 20's, 45 seemed real old LOL
 
At 41, I fall in that 'tweener' category. My father and grandfather never hunted, so I had to invent my own traditions. Being young and stupid, I fell for the tacticool waves that were overwhelming all the markets:

I bought my first deer rifle; a stainless Winchester Model 70 in .270 Winchester and a synthetic stock. It was a nice enough piece, but had all the soul of a 2x4. I have subsequently changed to a beautiful Mannlicher-Schoenauer with a bottomless blue finish and walnut stock. Functionally, the Winchester buried the M-S, but aesthetically, the Austrian gun wins hands down.

The stainless Winchester 1300 has been supplanted by a BRNO ZH301 O/U.

The obligatory Desert Eagle, in matte black, was replaced by a '48 vintage S&W .357 Magnum (pre-model 27).

And the Benchmade folder has lost pocket duty to a Schatt & Morgan Deluxe English Jack.

My heart will forever belong to the classics.

Rick - Curmudgeon in Training
 
I for one do not go for all things traditional. I may carry a stockman, but I also EDC a Spyderco Military. I like what I like. Sometimes it's new tech, other times it is old school. I don't think that one is any better than the other. I'm just glad that I can have both.
 
I for one do not go for all things traditional. I may carry a stockman, but I also EDC a Spyderco Military. I like what I like. Sometimes it's new tech, other times it is old school. I don't think that one is any better than the other. I'm just glad that I can have both.

I agree. I should have also stated in my first reply that I also use some modern things .. I think it would be great if people could explore the other side too, just because its old doesn't mean its not good.. It is nice having a choice....
 
Someday stainless steel and plastic will be "traditional" just as carbon steel and wood were once "tactical". It's not the tools or the materials that define tradition. It is how they are used and what they mean to the user.
 
Someday stainless steel and plastic will be "traditional" just as carbon steel and wood were once "tactical". It's not the tools or the materials that define tradition. It is how they are used and what they mean to the user.
stevekt,
I must wholeheartedly and totally disagree with this statement.

In fact, if there ever was an example of the meaning "oxymoron" in regards to the comparison of the meaning of grass roots "Traditional Pocketknives", which I interpeted the threads author to define here in this thread, this is it!
 
Someday stainless steel and plastic will be "traditional" just as carbon steel and wood were once "tactical". It's not the tools or the materials that define tradition. It is how they are used and what they mean to the user.
First, carbon steel and wood scales were never considered tactical, unless of coarse you are referring to 19th century Bowie type knives and the like, which is outside this threads authors depictions of pocket knives.. Second, you are assuming that cheap plastic and cheap stainless steel will somehow surpass and rise above the true craftsmanship of the traditional pocketknife which is not ever going to happen. Please check your recent pocketknife history for some enlightenment.! Even the last 200 years should be sufficent to prove my point. However, you could go back to the Roman Empire if you like.
 
Good evening gentlemen.

Talking about things traditional, we had an interesting day on the range with the family. Some family came from out of town, and we had a long range session today, just to enjoy the fun of shooting. In about 3 or 4 hours we went through alot of ammo.

Among the guns used were my Smith and Wesson 617, old Ruger mk1, Marlin lever action 39, Karens Smith and Wesson K-22, her Marlin 39, a family members Glock 9mm, a brother in laws Remington speedmaster.22, an in laws Colt .45 auto and Marlin model 60 semiauto .22, a Berreta 92 9mm, a Smith and Wesson model 66 .357, and a CZ scout .22. Hundreds of rounds were fired, and our guns were not clean to start with as we had shot just the other day. Of course the .22's saw more shooting than the center fire arms with 4 boxes of bulk Federals being used.

The only guns that fired hundreds of rounds with absolutely no malfunctions of any kind were the Smith and Wesson revolvers, and the Marlin lever action 39's, and the CZ scout. And they started the day dirty. Durring the day, all of the other guns had a failure to eject, or feed once, and in the case of the Marlin .22 model 60 a couple of times.

And some wonder why I stay with revolvers and lever actions. Although I was very taken with my cousins CZ bolt action. It had beutifull walnut and tack driving accuracy. A very traditional rifle with great preformance.
 
Today's tactical could very well be tomorrow's traditional. And I do believe carbon steel and wood could be considered the materials of yesterday's tactical knives.

Although the term tactical knife or tactical folder was not widely used back then, that is what they could be considered. A carbon steel, stag handled stockman is a tactical folder? Ridiculous! Hold on, hear me out for a sec. Tactical meaning of or pertaining to tactics.

tac·tic (tāk'tĭk) Pronunciation Key
n. An expedient for achieving a goal; a maneuver. A procedure or set of maneuvers engaged in to achieve an end, an aim, or a goal.

I believe stockmen, whittlers and barlows were tools to assist in achieving an end, an aim, or a goal. Hence, I do consider them yesterday's tactical knives. Yes, I know it is a bit of a stretch. ;)

sunnyd, I do think it is a bit odd that I mention plastic and stainless and you feel the need to add "cheap". There are plenty of knives out there that are plastic and stainless that are of very good quality. I am interested in many different styles of knives and don't feel it is necessary to degrade one style in order to appreciate another.

As far as plastic and stainless rising above and surpassing traditional pocketknives, it has already happened. Companies like Victorinox and Spyderco are industry leaders that specialize in plastic and stainless and they control a large part of the pocket knife industry. Please check some recent sales figures for some enlightenment! :D

jackknife, it's always a pleasure reading your posts.
 
stevekt,

(1).. I believe stockmen, whittlers and barlows were tools to assist in achieving an end, an aim, or a goal. Hence, I do consider them yesterday's tactical knives. Yes, I know it is a bit of a stretch. ;)

(2).. sunnyd, I do think it is a bit odd that I mention plastic and stainless and you feel the need to add "cheap". There are plenty of knives out there that are plastic and stainless that are of very good quality. I am interested in many different styles of knives and don't feel it is necessary to degrade one style in order to appreciate another.

(1) Yes, a bit of stretch, I'll agree with you there. Considering the actual definition of the word "tactical" and the common use for the term as it refers to the plastic handled, single blade(often bead blasted blade) knife that was discussed in the original post in this thread, and as you and I both know, is a complete departure from the "traditional" knives such as stockman, whittlers and barlows that you mention.

(2) stevekt, lets be very clear. Once again, I was referring to the original post in this thread where by it was discussed that your typical plastic scales on a "tactical" knife, as compared to jigged bone, bone-stag and stag on a "traditional" slipjoint, by all measure of raw materials cost and labor costs would be considered cheap by definition, as would most hi-carbon steels compared with the common stainless steel used in these two very different categories of knives. The term cheap used in the comparesent above is just the truth and nothing more.. I am bewildered that it would bother you so much and that you took offence to the term, yet the truth is the truth.

I would submit to you that you should use whatever what ever type of knife works for you and makes you happy, and I will continue to use the timeless traditional slipjoint knives, which are the finest quality pocket cutlery ever made.

Merry Christmas and many Blessings,

Anthony
 
My point is that any knife can be "tactical" and any knife can be "traditional" regardless of the pattern or materials. I feel they are inaccurate labels from the get go but have become accepted terminology. I appreciate tradition but I also embrace modern technology.

Kind of ironic that your name is sunnyd. It should be orange juice. ;)

Have a Merry Christmas. :thumbup:
 
Jackknife,

I tend to agree with you on most of the things in your post.:)

But there are two exceptions!:p

The :barf: Mini-Cooper,:barf: and the:barf: :barf: analog wrist watch:barf: :barf:

:D Outdoors people like us, i.e. knife and gun enthusiasts, tend to be traditional, but still like technology if it offers better quality.:D
 
Jackknife,

I tend to agree with you on most of the things in your post.:)

But there are two exceptions!:p

The :barf: Mini-Cooper,:barf: and the:barf: :barf: analog wrist watch:barf: :barf:

:D Outdoors people like us, i.e. knife and gun enthusiasts, tend to be traditional, but still like technology if it offers better quality.:D

While I'm with you on the Mini, we diverge on the watch issue. I wore a G-Shock at some point in college, but for the last twenty years, analog is it, and mechanical, all of the Seiko Automatic variety because I can't quite seem to leave my Scot heritage behind (although lately I have enjoyed the quartz precision and no-batteries design of the eco-drive).
 
Kind of ironic that your name is sunnyd. It should be orange juice. :thumbup:


Now Steve,

I can agree to share all kinds of information on this board and appreciate each and everyone's ideas and feelings..But I must contest and PROTEST...

No offense to Sunndy (Bladeforum member that is :D ) But if you are going to classify the fruit juice sunndy as orange juice this here Florida Citrus Grower is going to have a cardiac :eek: at that mistake of a statement...With the exception of sharing the same color that's about all they have in common...:p

This message was brought to you by your neighborhood Citrus Farmer...:)

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