Almost like a Reeve........

[Howard Faltz]

It never fails. No matter the topic, or the forum. Sometime, somehow the topic seems, like a magnet, to draw Chris Reeve's knives into the fray.

For some reason folks sure like to criticize Reeve for being successful. In a recent conversation I asked Chris when he was going to make a "NEW" folder. His response was "When they stop buying Sebenzas." Well, I don't think that will be anytime soon from our sales experience of them. They must be good, CRKT, Benchmade and a flurry of other companies and custom designers/makers have "updated the basic design". I guess that is the true form of flattery.

When a maker is concerned about having blades water cut and customers have no problem with buying that product, (as one of you put it, its no different than a chef using a food processor rather than his knife)why then the public outcry when an honest man finds people that have certain skills better than his own to do specific tasks. I never heard Chris say that each knife was a "custom knife". I have heard hundreds say that Reeves are "THE BEST WORKING KNIFE THEY HAVE EVER OWNED." I carry 2 of them. I have customers who collect decorated Sebenzas, Umfanns, and fixed blades.

My caution is that you find out more about ANY product yourself. There may be other reasons not being disclosed, that are the REAL reason for a product being railed. As long as the Reeve knives continue to perform as well as they do, I'll continue to buy, sell, use and recommend them mysself and to my customers.



------------------
Howard A. Faltz, Owner
Arizona Knife Source
"Keep it Sharp"
Luke 22:26
www.azknife.com

 

[UW Mitch]

All I know is that the BM Pinnacle, makes me want a Sebenza even more. Realize, I'm not saying that the Pinnacle isn't a good knife, especially at 1/3 of the cost. I would just rather get the real deal, over something BM gives no credit to Reeve for. To me the knives are too similar, and CRK came out with the Sebenza long before BM came out with the Pinnacle.

Just my opinion,
Mitch

 

[JoHnYKwSt]

why then the public outcry when an honest man finds people that have certain skills better than his own to do specific tasks.

My thoughts exactly. One person making the whole knife may give the owner of the knife the pride of knowing that "so and so made this knife, and only so and so." But everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. One maker may be awsome at grinding blades but not so good at making the liner lock; while another maker may make a perfect liner lock, but only be ok at grinding blades. Does it not make more sense to have people specialize in doing specific tasks they are good at?

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Johnny
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[sharpdoc]

Mitch,why should BM give CRK credit for anything? Chris did not invent the integral/frame/mono lock.He has certainly perfected it.Mel Pardue made frame locks years ago and I'm not sure he was the first either.

 

[PENGUIN]

Plus while the Sebenza is the better knife, the BM Pinnacle has a more ergonomic & I believe better handle design. Also the BM blade is a recurve narrower design so there is not a lot similar between the two knives other than the lock which has and is being used by many makers. The Sebenza may have been the inspiration for the Pinnacle but it is not a copy.

Bill

 

[Les Robertson]

I must have wandered into the wrong room!

I thought we talked about "custom" knives here.

Howard,

One could derive from your statement that you belive in the Reeve's knives so strongly because they are a big part of your business. After all are you really going to talk bad about a knife that you sell a lot of? Perhaps you are putting a positive spin on this knife to manipulate the market for your own good.

After all, as you stated in this forum before, only 25% of your business is custom knives.

Ah the spin can be a double edged sword! Custom sword of course.

Les

 

[Howard Faltz]

Reeve knives COULD be a large part of our business IF Reeve increased production to meet our demands. Furthermore, I rarely speak poorly of any brand or maker. The same could be said of you also. Are you so critical of CRK because he refuses to sell to you? Les, give credit where credit is due. Reeve makes one of the finest knives in the world and let it go. I also put my money where my mouth is, I carry and use 2 Reeve knives on a daily basis. I could carry just about anything.

------------------
Howard A. Faltz, Owner
Arizona Knife Source
"Keep it Sharp"
Luke 22:26
www.azknife.com

 

[Les Robertson]

Howard,

Once again you have your facts confused. July 1997, Las Vegas, Nevada. Please note in the previous year myself, Bob Neal and LDC spent well over $25,000 with Reeve.

I told him becuase of the way he conducted business and that as he was no longer a custom knife maker that I would never buy a knife from him again.

RJ Martin was present during this conversation.

Howard as only a small portion of your business is custom knives, it is not imperative that you draw the line between factory and custom.

However, it is imperative for me as a Custom Knife Dealer to make that distinction. My clients depend on me to give them the facts.

Howard in the future you may want to get all the facts before you make incorrect statements.

Les

 

[stjames]

Les, before you get to high up on that horse of yours, I'd like to remind you that I purchased an LDC-109 Sebenza from you, and you never mentioned it was not a custom knife at any point during our transaction. You still have these knives available for sale with no mention of this fact, and your site has been updated since well after the events you describe. If you feel that strongly about informing the customer, as you claim, I would have thought this would be a high priority for you.

For the record, I was aware of the knife history and production methods involved before I made my purchase, and am very happy with the blade. This does not change the fact that one should practice what one preaches.

------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Les Robertson]

James,

First I did make a mistake. When I talked with Chris in Vegas it was July 98.

LDC received it's first 31 LDC 109's on 10/26/97 (Invoice #4158). The balance were delivered on 3/12/98 (Invoice #4775). To my knowledge all knives were made by Chris and with Scott Cook helping, as this was our agreement.

James, with these facts now in evidence, your comment hit the nail on the head. Now I have to prove to you and others that these knives were really made as the maker told me they were.

I, Bob Neal and LDC Custom Knives should not have been put in that position.

It was only after I found out at the Guild Show in 1998 what Chris was doing, that I sought him out. At this point I told him in no uncertain terms as he was no longer a custom knife maker that I, Bob or LDC would never buy another knife from him again.

At the 1998 New York Custom Knife Show Chris approached Bob to try and talk with him. Bob turned and walked away. I heard screaming and saw heads turning as Chris was yelling at Bob. I think at this point it finally hit home, as not only had Chris Reeve lost a profitable account, he lost Bob Neal as a friend.

This is why it is imperative to keep the record straight. As I have shown, I have invoices, cancelled checks and witness's to back up my side of this story.

James and Howard, I have always held that the Sebenza is an excellent knife. I also feel the Chris and Linda are excelent people. However, when you have someone who is in the position that Chris was/is. It is imperative that it be he, not rumors, that in a very public way (not a letter on an empty table at the Guild Show, i.e. a full page ad in Blade Magazine, Tactical Knives or Knives Illustrated)explain to the knife community exactly how Chris Reeve Knives is changing the way it does business. Perhaps because my business and reputation may have suffered some because of this lack of information. Perhaps I do take it more personally.

Wouldn't you??

Les

 

[stjames]

However, it is imperative for me as a Custom Knife Dealer to make that distinction. My clients depend on me to give them the facts.

My issue is that you have not given your clients the facts as you claim. On your Main Page for LDC Custom Knives, updated on October 1st, 1999, you state:

This is the first time a set of custom knives like this has been offered.

This clearly implies that all the knives in the series are Custom Knives. Nowhere on the site is there any clarification regarding CRKs contribution to the line.

Since you seem eager, outside of your own promotions, to make sure that the ELU is aware that Chris Reeve is no longer a Custom Knifemaker, this obvious omission in regards to items that you are offering for sale does little to enhance your credibility.

------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Les Robertson]

James,

There is not a intentional or accidential omission on mine or LDC's part.

At the time that the knives were made, they were built by Chris (according to Chris), and Scott Cook. If you have different information, please come forward with it.

James, the majority of these knives were built 9 months before Chris made his annoucement at the Guild Show.

LDC's information is based on the facts given to us by Chris Reeve at the time. These facts have remained on the site as Chris Reeve has not told us differently.

James should you or anyone else bring to our attention through a verifiable source, that we have been mislead by Chris Reeve. We will change our web site, post the appropriate legal discalaimer and apologize to all who have been feel they were mislead.

With each maker who participated in the LDC series there was no legal contract. Every deal was made with trust and a handshake.

So to this point the facts and site will remain as they are.

James, both LDC's and my crediblity are intact.

Les


[This message has been edited by Les Robertson (edited 13 December 1999).]

 

[stjames]

Les, thanks for the clarification. In light of the posts that you have made in regard to CRK on this forum over the past year, I feel that it is in order.

You have spent considerable time "outing" Chris Reeve as no longer being a Custom Knifemaker. This included locking or moving any Sebenza related thread on this forum when you were moderator.

Since, by your own admission, there are Chris Reeve Custom Knives still on the market today, then it seems you might have been hasty in your past actions and let your personal feelings cloud your judgement. Or perhaps you are trying to put a negative spin on this knife to manipulate the market for your own good.


------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Les Robertson]

James,

Well here some more clarification for you. Hopefully this will finally get your facts straight.

First, I did not "out" Chris. Chris and the United States Knifemakers Guild did that.

Second, the only thread I closed as a moderator on Chris was after he was given 1 week to respond. He chose not to do so. Consequently, I closed the thread. How long do you leave a thread open that does not discuss custom knives? Much like this one.

Third as a moderator I moved several threads to the General Forum, as they had no custom knife content. This included discussions not only of Reeve Knives, but Randall, Benchmade, Spyderco, etc.

Fourth, I have always held that there are custom Reeve knives out there. From the time he was in South Africa until 1998 (when Chris announced he no longer made his knives).

Fifth, my much public discusion of the construction of CRK knives has cost LDC money. Point of Fact, Over 2 years after delivery of the LDC-109's we still have some avialable. Obviously, I have not been trying to manipulate the market for my own good.

I don't know how long you have been on this forum. But after all this came to light. I still had current Reeve inventory. I immediately went online, wrote what I had found out and discounted his knives immediately. Again, I lost money on these knives as well. James I did this for so there would be no doubt where Robertson's Custom Cutlery stood on this newest information.

Lastly, James as you can see by my last few posts responding to you, that what you and possibly others thought was incorrect.

So it's good that you brought these points up in a public forum. I have answered everything you have brought up from simple questions to comdenation of my character.

Furhter discussion of this subject in this forum is no longer necessary. However, should you choose to ask more questions, feel free to do it using my personal email. As I will no longer spend time in this forum on a non-custom thread.

Les

 

[stjames]

Les,

First, you have been extremely vocal about the status of CRK. To deny this and claim that it is only Chris himself and the Guild that has been doing so is a fallacy.

Second and Third, when you were moderator, you shut down any thread that involved the Sebenza, and only started to move them late in the game. This was because you were unaware of the option of moving a thread, as you claimed at the time.

Fourth, while you have always held the claim of some CRK knives being custom, you still allowed your feelings on the issue to cloud your judgement by simply removing the issue from your forum instead of allowing a full exploration of the facts. As you pointed out, all this came to light after many people first joined the forum, so again, some clarification was in order.

Fifth, these actions are what led to LDC losing money, and certainly not the way Chris has chosen to make knives. He still has a profitable business with many satisfied customers and a large distribution system. But by stirring up the dedicated Custom Knife ELU (your clientele) against a certain maker you have put a stain on his entire work. To your credit, you have never claimed that your version of the Sebenza is a true Custom, and that all others are not.

And lastly, Les, I never condemned your character. I pointed out that your long-standing position on CRK was directly opposed to your company’s on-line catalog. If I was incorrect, it was because the information that you presented was incomplete. I simply used the same reference to the situation that you did, that spin is a double-edged sword. Not Custom or Production, but metaphoric.

And please don’t ask me to take a public issue into the back rooms with you. That runs contrary to the open flow of information that is the strength of this Forum.


------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Les Robertson]

James,

Yes, I told people that Chris's knives were not custom. This was only after the Guild and Chris made this public. So as you say I was not the one who "outed" Chris. Is there a part of this you did not understand from the last post?

If you remember Chris came in to the custom forum and made accusations he could not back up once I asked him to prove it. As a matter of fact, I put on there that I would appreciate no one else post on that thread other than Chris. He would be given a chance to rebut or answer what I said. HE NEVER CHOSE TO ANSWER....EVER! After a week of this I closed the thread. Do you remember that part James?? If not go back and look up the thread.

As for you not bringing my credibilty into this I direct your attention to the following quote from your post.

"Since you seem eager, outside of your own promotions, to make sure that the ELU is aware that Chris Reeve is no longer a Custom Knifemaker, this obvious omission in regards to items that you are offering for sale does little to enhance your credibility."

It would appear that both short term and long term memory problems exsist.

Then you made the following statement.

"these actions are what led to LDC losing money, and certainly not the way Chris has
chosen to make knives. He still has a profitable business with many satisfied customers and a large distribution system. But by stirring up the dedicated Custom Knife ELU (your clientele) against a certain maker you have put a stain on his entire work".

I never said Chris did not have profitable business. Go back and re-read. You claimed I was trying to manipulate the market for my own gain. I pointed out to you that by making my position clear on how Reeve knives are manufactured hurt sales and cost me money among my clinetel. Any stirring that I did was nothing more than informing a mass audience that Chris Reeve and the Guild no longer made custom knives. You many not have approved at my course of action, but it was nothing more than me repeating what had already been said by Chris and the Guild.

James any further discussion would now have to look at what your agenda is for this particular thread. Obviously it goes beyond just merely pointing out the fact that I was vocal in my "outing" of Reeve Knives.

Prehaps, you just enjoy stirring the post as well. Perhaps you have a vast collection of Reeve knives and do have a hidden agenda?

Les

 

[stjames]

Les, Chris is “out” as a Production Knife Maker. Your insistence in pointing this out at every available opportunity is my issue with you, not whom first revealed the information. I cannot help but believe that this is simply to improve the potential for sales in the Custom Knife field, as anyone you convince not to purchase a Sebenza because it is not a Custom Knife has the potential to become one of your clients.

My clients depend on me to give them the facts.

Then please do so, Les. What is one to think after reading one of your posts and then visiting your website to see a Sebenza for sale as a Custom Knife? In my case, you have cleared up the confusion regarding the LDC-9 and LDC-109. If you cannot see the conflict between your past insistence that the Sebenza is not a Custom Knife and your continued advertising of them as the same, it is certainly not my fault that your credibility came into question. It was the result of your contrary statements, and nothing more. You should consider clarifying the issue on your website to ensure that your credibility remains unquestioned instead of simply becoming insulted by the issues raised.

You entered this thread to question the motives of a fellow knife retailer. Whether this was for the good of the ELU of for your own profit remains in question, or perhaps you just enjoy stirring the posts. I entered this thread to question your motives, Les, as it is evident that you have conflicting information floating around on the WWW. No hidden agenda, I have simply pointed out what I have observed in the past, plain and simple. My having a “vast” collection of Chris Reeve Knives does not change these facts.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA