alterative forging methods?

speedandsteel

speedandsteel

Joined
May 13, 2011
Messages
15
Hello everyone out there on our Nation's birthday! hope you-all are having fun with family and friends. I have a question for all the people out there that know more about bladesmithing than I do (everybody). I am new to bladesmithing and times being what they are, I have become the swap meet-pawn shop-thrift store master. My brother has found an electric powered pottery kiln that he says will go up to 1200 degrees (faren). my question is, is this hot enough to get to welding heat in a large variety of the steels that are used in knifemaking, is the nature of the heat delivery appropriate to the task, in short can this tool be used to good effect? I am able to get this for an extremely reasonable price, but if i can't use it then it is just money wasted. If anyone can help me then it would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Birthday America!
 
Pottery kilns usually aren't a good fit for knife use. Also, I don't know if he is reading the scale right, but 1200F is too low for any knife work, and lower than most all pottery firing. It probably is 1200C. If it is free ,or nearly free, then it can probably be put to some use, but for a beginner to use as a forge - NO. I wouldn't spend any money on it unless money is not an issue.

Start with simple steel knives. Welding damascus is a much more advanced skill.
 
If you are going to forge your blades your gonna need a forge. The kiln may work as a heat treat oven if max temp is 1200 C.
 
thanks, guys. Kinda what i thought too, but he was so happy at being able to help out with my knifemaking that i couldn't just right off the bat say no. for the size blades im working with right now a toaster oven will work for my heat treat, but im still stuck for forge fuel. I thought i saw a link to youtube that had a fellow forging with his son and using pine for a good fuel. I'm in east Texas so getting pine is def. not an issue. Any thoughts on this, oor coal sources near Texarkana that I can take advantage of?
 
Welcome to Bladeforums!

A toaster oven may work ok for your tempering, but it won't do for your hardening. For heat treating, you'll need minimum temperatures of 1450F for the most basic steels and up to 2000F+ for certain stainless and high alloy tool steels. A dedicated heat treating oven or a temperature controlled forge with a baffle can do the trick; otherwise, you'll need to send your blades out to heat treat or find a maker close by who's willing to help out. If you really want to do your own heat treating, use something like 1084 as a steel, as it is the easiest to heat treat with limited temperature control. It doesn't need much of a soak at temperature, and it's critical temperature is just a bit about its curie point (when it turns non-magnetic). So basically, you can heat treat with a well-controlled coal forge or simple one-brick propane forge and a magnet. It also will harden pretty well in canola oil.

You can easily build a coal forge with a blower in place of a bellows for forging, but do it right and don't trust most of what you see on youtube. I'd spend some time searching around on this forum for some good ideas on ways you can get your feet on the ground in this hobby. There are definitely ways to do it on on a budget the right way. I notice you're in Texarkana which happens to be the home of a very good forging school (the Moran school of bladesmithing). Classes are actually taught in Washington, AK, but it's just down the road. Check for hammer-ins in your area, and you can meet some of the makers and learn what this craft is all about.

--nathan
 
You can run a coal style forge on charcoal also. Natural lump not brickets.

Wayne S
 
Tim Lively used to have a video on youtube for making a charcoal forge out of a washtub. The video is down, but here's a link to one a lot like it: http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=7702
Oval washtubs are a little more space efficient, but round ones work, too. I built one of these for about $40, using adobe I made from play sand and clay kitty litter. My blower is a cheap hair drier.
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I've been using it for over a year now and I love it.
Since you mention bladesmithing (as opposed to knife making) I'll also give you a tip on anvils. A fancy anvil with a hardened face is certainly best, but you can make do with a DIY anvil for next to nothing. All you need is a 5 gallon bucket filled with concrete and a heavy piece of steel with a flat face. I used a 30lb dumbell with one end filed (relatively) flat. It's not a great anvil by any means but it gets me by and it also cost me less than $40 (most of that was the dumbell. you can find a bigger, flatter piece of steel at a junkyard). See it here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/739384-So-far-so-good.
Japanese bladesmiths used (and still use) anvils with no horn — just a big square of steel. Having a horn obviously makes some things easier, but you can get by without one if you're creative and/or not too ambitious. Tim Lively (I recommend his video, too) uses a very similar anvil and he makes beautiful knives.
Add a couple of hammers, some files, and some steel and you're set up for less than $200. Far less if you scrounge a bit.

- Chris
 
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