Ahem. Excuse me..
Do you know about belgian coticules and japanese water stones?
I notice a certain lack of information about those items in some threads, and don't know if it's reluctance on the part of some folks to self-advertise, being in the trade and all, as well as a tendency among all decent people to avoid controversy unless there's stimulating thought provoking new info to discuss.. which this isn't..
you get a finer edge by using a finer grit size. You are competent to the level of your tools. DMT indeed will produce a finer edge with their 'fine' and 'extra fine' hones, and i recommend them for fast removal of metal, as in after rough use that damages the edge (chips/nicks) or new out of the box machine-sharpened knives with a prominent 'shoulder' just behind the edge itself.
HOWEVER, DMT hones lose their effectiveness immediately after achieving what they WILL achieve, as in when you've gotten it all there ain't no more, it takes finer grit to work the edge SMOOTHLY to a better more enduring sharpness.
Natural stone abrades and semi-dissolves in water, ie mudstone, and the particulate abrasive (several sorts, depending) floats in that mud, polishing as well as sharpening, and degrading under pressure to finer and smoother particulates, essentially dissolving into finer and finer grit paste.. with the metal fragments that have been removed as well. . so it's not an answer to 'save the mud'..
but tempting, and worth doing when flattening a very good stone.
But for the record, belgian coticules go up to maybe 8000 grit, japanese stones maybe up to 12,000, or even more.. and at that level you're in the realm of microtome sharp, beyond most peoples experience and certainly beyond their needs.
Hairpopping sharp, (or scary sharp!) you can get STRICTLY with stones, or without using them at all, dealers choice.
if you can go from a rough edge to a working edge on a (piece of junk) cheap synthetic rock, yes, you are competent with inadequate tools.
You'll need a 1200 grit King stone for metal removal, or fine/X-fine DMT duo-sharp bench hone (both 8" hones)
you'll need a 'medium' sharpening stone, blue belgian is good, get at least 6" x 1.25 x .5 .. (15cm x 3cm x1.5cm +/-) ..
then a fine stone, and if you get the expensive natural double grit belgian you already got it, blue and cream colored (or salmon or champagne or whatever color they claim) .. in a natural combination stone.. (warning: rare & expensive & lifetime good and you'll not be without one again after owning the first one.. )
OR you can buy two like-sized and glue them together, the blue and cream, (ymmv, it MIGHT work, but for how long? )
OR you can stick to the blue and use some other type for a finish rock, japanese the first guess. the only trouble is, it's likely even MORE expensive, and you must have the right to return the stone or buy from a Very Reputable Dealer, the which there is exactly one of, on ebay, to my knowledge..and, no surprise, he ain't cheap. You get what you pay for, i've done very well in the range of 100-200$ and was an informed shopper and got lucky both.. the guy has good rocks, doesn't lie, and doesn't soak you for overpriced shipping. if you're interested in knowing who you can make a guess or pm me, I don't care to advertise for anyone but i've been pleased with his offered rocks and I am not easily pleased.
fact, i had to brag at my own smartness for being willing to send money sight unseen (4 times now) and being eminently satisfied every time, by now i'm convinced ..
but honestly, go top shelf belgian ONCE, and you're done. you might spend 300$ on a double grit belgian bench hone (7-8" x 2.5-3" x 3/4-1 inch.. ) but you're DONE buying rocks.. out of need, anyway..
i have more rocks by weight and dollars invested than knives. i always will have. i buy knives to have an excuse for the rocks.
300$ for a lifetime hone is cheap. it's bluidy THRIFTY when you consider it saves time, (lots) the sharpness of the knives saves time, never having to buy another hone cause there's none better for working knives saves you bothering to look around, and they're rare enough that if you avoid bragging nobody will know its worth, the BEST security precaution.... i give all credit to japanese stones for quality and a very slight prideful inflation of price .. but if time matters and you are using a wide variety of knives.. go belgian. if you were born with a silver spoon in one hand and a dish of caviar in the other, you may do as you please, but if not, budget might count..
another (reasonable) alternative is shapton synthetic stones. they are, bar none, the most reliable and fast and advanced synthetic stones.. of several styles. if you bought nothing ever again that didn't say shapton on it, you could spend lots of money and have VERY good tools to sharpen. Natural or synthetic is a matter of taste and discernment, and if you want a reliable product without fear of flaw.. shapton qualifies. *slightly* less esthetically satisfying.. perhaps.. but darn skippy to hit hair popping sharp working up the grits on shapton hones.. i don't personally know anybody who owns their top grade stone, it's 30,000 grit and several hundred dollars.. but there's no bluidy NEED for it, save for one in a million people. i doubt they sell a handful of them a year.. it's pure brag to make such a rock..
and then there are the abrasive films and pastes, which produce results much like shapton with more fuss. 'nuf said. it's a cheaper initial cost, a good result, and more fiddling about with it. suit yourself.. personally i find them less than enjoyable, as do all but the fanatics for that method..
i am a believer in convex edges and detest single bevels.. and keep most of my kitchen knives and pocket knives at about a 2000 grit working edge.. after the initial break in sharpening where i find out how far it'll go. Some exceptions are those rare fine grained pieces of steel that just seem to demand finer edges, perfectly heat treated and lacking large carbides, that i'll run up to 8000 grit.
and then carefully store touching nothing, cause i have no use for surgical edges on a 12" carving knife or a small hatchet, they WANTED to be that sharp..
you just need better rocks. start saving, lifetime quality ain't cheap, ain't always even AVAILABLE.. and if you're smart you'll snag it when it goes by. I did, griped, whined, paid the money.. and now I'm very glad indeed.
the pain of the cost wears off, and the pleasure of the quality lingers and grows.. belgian coticules, japanese stones, or shaptons.
they'll all get you there, something to be said for all three.. but i listed them in the order i'd buy them.
I own many arkansas rocks, and the useful ones are ancient Lily Whites, (hardly affordable due to the collectors).. and black or translucent surgical hard burnishing stones.. but they are slower and more appropriate to small kitchens or dentists and watchmakers.. not easy to get useful ones, many are pure junk. the exceptions are still not FAST sharpeners, and the hardest are essentially burnishing stones that have a job in polishing but do not much for the edge except burr removal.
that's not MUCH.. but that little bit is excuse enough to own a few finger sized hardest surgical arkansas.. like glass nearly.
Personally, I seldom do the hair popin' sharp. Just because it won't hold up for my usage.
