Am I wrong about this?

dayuhan13

dayuhan13

Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
415
Before the advent of internet and the establishment of fora like this one, most of us "old school" relied on magazines and word of mouth to learn of what was out there. Then the trips to knife shows, gun shows, sportsman shows etc. to get the opportunity to possibly handle and purchase what might have caught our attention. Sometimes, several trips were necessary when you couldn't make it out in time before all examples werent already gone. I remember driving over 150 miles to get to another gunshow just for a knife. We "old schoolers' made some sacrifices in pursuit of our passion and knowledge.

The new breed of knife collectors/users/nuts have it easy and no longer have to go through the wholly personal and sometimes ugly experience of picking out a knife. IMO, something is "lost" when most of the big factors are decided by the comments, suggestions, or reviews of others rather than the individual. I've come across threads where poster X has purchased or not purchased product Y because of the comments of poster Z. I'm sure there are many here who have purchased a knife (possibly on-line or through catalog) w/o ever having handled it first hand. Some of those purchases ending in disappoinment.

I think its important to learn about synergy of "knife and self" from failures, success, trial, error, and "junk-n-jewel" purchases. It's all part of the process. Some of you might say that it's a bit tougher these days for TNG (the "new" guys) with all the new locks, steels, designs etc. Well, it's just as hard for TOG (the "old" guys) who grew up with 440s, Buck 110s, and slip joints. We have new terminology to keep up with just the same.

To put things in a simpler realm, would anybody purchase a firearm solely based on the opinions of others without ever passing a few rounds through a rental unit or similar piece at the range? Or at the least, testing the heft, sights, slide/cylinder and trigger? Probably not. TOG know that everyone is different and choose tjier tools accordingly.

This isn't a slam against newbies (with less than 300 posts in a year, I consider myself a newbie to the forum) or TNG but maybe just a reminder not to take yourselves for granted when making a decision. We all were mature enough to find our way to this forum and find it a suitable place to post questions, opinions and knowledge. There's a wealth of enlightenment to be found here but don't subjugate "good ol' personal experience". It's boring to live life through another person's experiences. Just something to think about.

Dayuhan

Edited for incorrect latin plurification of the noun forum thanks ESAV;)
 
I'm a young 'un, but I still think I know what you're talking about.

Fortunately I was bright enough to know that I can't tell how a knife 'feels' without handling it. I have only bought a few cheap knives (MoD, Maxam) off the internet. The magazines can only cover so much, and some of thier reviews seem like a thinly veiled advertisement.

I enjoy dealing with knife sellers and gun dealers at shops and shows. However, many I have TRIED to deal with simply see a young punk who wants something shiny. I did not buy from those dealers, I just handled thier wares (ewwww) to get a feel for what I liked and bought it off the internet for less.

The dealers I like, I will return to again and again even though I know I'll pay a bit more. The internet still gives me some leverage, I was able to talk my local gun dealer down a bit on his ammo prices. The same quantity of similar ammo was selling online for $60, I got it from my dealer for $75. Accounting for shipping and the ease of walking out with it, thats well worth it.

Buying from dealers also gives me a face to put with the product and the reciept. I know I bougt my ProTech from a certain dealer, he recognizes me and I recognize him. I think that will help him sell more and me to pay less in the future. When I look at 1sks.com though, its just another website.
 
EEK! I really like my MOD Hornet and Tempest. Both are on my EDC rotation.

Dayuhan
 
Very well-said, dayuhan13.

Dig deep enough, one can find dirt on *_anything_* on the Errornet.

It amplifies the voice of the vocal minority, and can often not only shift, but truly distort perspective.

Look for on-line reviews of Lexus or even Mercedes. Read d-board posts about The Four Seasons or The Ritz Carlton. You'd wonder to yourself if there could ever be a decent car to buy or a nice hotel to lay up for the night.

We know the dangers of older, "traditional" media such as print, TV, or radio. We understand "Shock-Jockies" and the difference between a tabloid rag and the Wall Street Journal.

The Internet is just another form of mass-media, and we as smart consumers should understand its limits and pitfalls.

Allen
aka DumboRAT

PS: nevarmore, you get out to the knife shop in Great Northern Mall much ? I'm over by CWRU, BTW. :) And hey, a MOD is nothing to be ashamed of, they're very nice knives !
 
I was in english class(20th century Anglophone travel literature) today, and our professor had us go to the library. I'm 30. She had to explain to people that there is a big difference between Journals abd web pages. Journals are professional magazines, "moderated" by a staff of peer writers, also professionals in the field. Web pages aren't.

I had a great B&M Store-Alpine Knives in New Orleans. The owners, Al and Sue Brignac, are the Best. they have great products, great prices, and are knowledgeable about what they sell, which is everything edged. I used to browse alot, but I always bought some little thing from them, and sent countless people there for the use of their services. I have bought very few things blindly, and I'll pay the premium for having the ability to handle something before I buy it.

It used to be that those "in the know" put in a ton of work to get there. It's not the case anymore. I kind of feel bad that someone can come on these forums, with a knife that they may feel pretty good about (like my endura) and have a massive inferiority complex, instantly. But then, I feel great about helping someone buy a good tool instead of a "mutant killer tanto", based on my experience, and the help of others here. The times they are a changin'

Bob Dylan
 
In the old days, you had to learn by yourself by buying and using different knives and learning from experience which dealers were reliable. But even on the internet, you have to learn who to listen to, who's just mouthing off, who's willing to explain WHY their suggestion might make sense for you. There's a lot of good information on the 'net, but you still have to evaluate your sources, even in a peer-reviewed journal you have to know why they're writing about a particular problem and not paying attention to another.
 
You can put me down as one of the "old school" but I really don't see a difference between researching through journals and magazines and using the 'net except the 'net is quicker in many ways. I believe forums such as this are a great advantage once you sort out the wheat from the chaff. In many ways this is getting down to the "nitty gritty" as you can get advice from users who have had a certain product in their hands over a period of time and can inform you of the pro's and con's whereas by using magazines you have to deal with a number of built in prejudices. eg magazines are loath to criticise a certain product esp. if they depend on the maker for advertising. When it comes down to it how many bad reviews do you see in mag's. Also mag's can't test every knife that comes along. KnifeKnuts the world over have the ability to expand their knowledge through forums such as this and get a variety of views they could not get by reading one or 2 magazines. In fact such forums have made the world smaller and have given all of us who use them access to information that would not be readily available. Many of us who use the 'net can not afford the magazines, journals and books and how many libraries carry such literature.

I would venture to say that the average knifeknut who uses the net is more well informed about knives today then his/her counterpart before the advent of the net. Just read the posts regarding 'steels' and you have more information and first-hand experiences that you would ever get in magazines etc. I consider myself well-read and well-researched on the subject of knives and steels but I believe I have doubled my knowledge since getting on the 'net using forums such as this, using 'google' and corresponding with other knifemakers and users.
 
JDBLADE said: ...how many libraries carry such literature.

Good point JDEE. Why is that I wonder? I've been to libraries that carried volumes of other mags but no knife or gun periodicals. There oughta be a law. . .

Dayuhan
 
But...........We can still believe everything we read in the magazines...right?
DPris
 
Originally posted by DPris
But...........We can still believe everything we read in the magazines...right?
DPris
Click to expand...

LOL. . .as much as we should believe everything Al-Jazeera broadcasts!:D

Dayuhan
 
Originally posted by JDBLADE
I would venture to say that the average knifeknut who uses the net is more well informed about knives today then his/her counterpart before the advent of the net.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, well informed is far from well experienced though. It's easy to learn "knifese" but tough to apply it when your only taste is two-dimensional. This is exactly what the point I was trying to put across.

Dayuhan
 
Sometimes internet/mailorder is the only option. Some of us don't have knife dealers within driving distance. It sucks, but whaddyagonnado?
 
In the old days you had to knap your own flint, you were very lucky if you could find a good piece of obsidian ...

Sorry, my point is that times change and ways change, usually (hopefully) for the better. With the internet we have won some things and lost others, I don´t buy knives over the net because of the customs hassle to get into Mexico, but I do find a lot of good information, still I win a lot more than I loose.

You had to mention libraries, it makes me realize how old I am, I use to have to take a bus to go downtown to a library to do research for homework, my daughters have not been to any library other than that small room in their school.

Edited for spelling. OOOPs, edited again for grammar.
 
:)

Yep, the 'Net is a great way to do research, but as with any form of media, one must be aware of the pitfalls.

With print, there's the aforementioned distinction between peer-reviewed, often trade or professional journals versus commercial magazines. We can distinguish the difference between an infomercial and a documentary on TV.

Internet users need to realize that this same difference exists on-line, and need to have the same critical thought processes functioning when they are reading supposed "reviews" of products, or even seemingly simple information provided by X or Y source.

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
The key is balance and cross-checking. Don't trust one source for all your info, and check it against other sources.

Magazines never give bad reviews and any negative comments are vague. The internet tends towards the extreme, with only very good and very bad experiences being posted. The 'net is also anonymous, its possible that an agent of the competiton could be posting negative remarks in order to boost his own buisness. Gun magazines offer some interesting reviews of knives, they are not written by knife guys and offer a new perspective, but they too conceal any faults with frilly language.

Originally posted by DumboRAT
PS: nevarmore, you get out to the knife shop in Great Northern Mall much ? I'm over by CWRU, BTW. :) And hey, a MOD is nothing to be ashamed of, they're very nice knives !
Click to expand...

The what in the where?!?! Must google for said local knifery!!! They were some neck knives for $5/each, I think they were MoD, it may have been a similar name. Locked up in my knife box under my bed and sleeping girlfriend, can't look and check right now.
 
Originally posted by nevarmore
They were some neck knives for $5/each, I think they were MoD, it may have been a similar name. Locked up in my knife box under my bed and sleeping girlfriend, can't look and check right now.
Click to expand...

Hmm, couldn't be MODs. Not at that price. If they are, damn! Let me know where you scored that! The only MOD neck knife is the Scorpion which runs about $60.

Dayuhan
 
Originally posted by nevarmore
The what in the where?!?! Must google for said local knifery!!!
Click to expand...

Great Northern Mall: 5000 Great Northern Blvd., North Olmstead, OH, 44070. It's just south of the airport.

Cutter's Corner is the store name. Tel: 440-716-6873

Mostly low-end stuff, but a decent selection of Cold Steel, SOG, Spyderco, Kershaw, and a few Benchmades along with William Henry and Lone Wolf. Unfortunately, they just do not have the clientel to support the ovehead needed in maintaining stock of Striders, CRKs, etc.

Prices are high, as to be expected of a Brick&Mortar, but still acceptable. I try to support them with Spyderco and BM purchases, when possible.

I'm pretty busy 'till the middle of March, but maybe then we could meet-up there? I've made friends with a coupla of the retail clerks there, Tony and Will, in particular, who are both knife-nuts -- and I owe them another trip to show-n'-tell my more recently acquired customs since my last visit.

:)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
I have found internet forums (fora?) to be excellent resources for all my hobbies, and information in general. I do not rely on the opinions of others exclusively, but I do include them in my decision making process (usually). Prior to the internet I used other resources such as Buyer's Guide etc. in an attempt to launch me in the right direction and keep me from wasting money by purchasing overpriced and/or inferior products. I often mention that I am frugal or that I'm a cheap bastid, but neither is really true. It's just that I've worked too hard for too long for too little to waste my precious resources frivolously. My darling wife thinks I am a nutt because I want to research almost all non-disposable purchases, from coffee pots to cars. I'd rather spend an hour of my free time (between 4 and 5 AM;)), looking at my options and ferreting out the winners than buy on a whim. Consequently, most of our goodies are quality products bought right, and bought once. Foolproof? No, but the exceptions prove the rule.

To put it in the vein of this thread and forum, I am an immeasurably smarter knife consumer and user than I was prior to browsing herein. It's an awful waste not to avail oneself of the learned experiences of like-minded folks. It's akin to ignorance, or reinventing the wheel. This is an amazing resource at our fingertips, and when coupled with a modicum of discretion, rationale, and common sense it can add a wealth knowledge to our everyday life. Thank you Al Gore:D
 
While peer-reviewed journals and documentaries have the ability to be better than online opinion slinging and infomercials, that isn't always the case. If all of the peers share the authors' biases there is a risk that they may all assume those biases to be true or to not even know to question them. Documentaries can't exist without the opinions of their director (which may or may not change in relation to the data found while filming the documentary).

That's not to say that I'm for unbiased reporting; far from it. If a person doesn't have an opinion for or against the subject being researched, how will he or she generate enough self-interest to provide a comprehensive study? It'd just be cool if the author could identify and note his or her bias or biases up front.
 
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