Ambering Sambar stag

K

Ken Williams

Joined
Dec 6, 2007
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324
I'm a sucker for top quality ambered stag, but my knowledge of it is rather woeful, which prompts this call for assistance.

1. Is ambering by Culpepper & Co., Inc. (Mother of Pearl, Inc.) the industry standard/only viable choice?

2. Do penetration depth and color intensity variance (Culpepper method) create substantive scale matching problems?

3. Are there inherent risks (warping/cracking) in the Culpepper method?

4. Is the potassium permanganate surface treatment sufficiently durable and handsome to be a serious contender?

5. Any clairvoyants willing to divulge whether the Indian export embargo is intractable?

6. Is the supply dwindling linearly since the ban, or do speculators unload stockpiles from time to time to reap max profits?

7. How do you rate the supply/quality of Sambar stag at Blade?

Thanks for your help.

ken
 
1. Is ambering by Culpepper & Co., Inc. (Mother of Pearl, Inc.) the industry standard/only viable choice?

It is good as I have seen.

2. Do penetration depth and color intensity variance (Culpepper method) create substantive scale matching problems?

Not if the maker selects his scales carefully.

3. Are there inherent risks (warping/cracking) in the Culpepper method?

Don't know of any.

4. Is the potassium permanganate surface treatment sufficiently durable and handsome to be a serious contender?

It works for most of the Stag you see.

5. Any clairvoyants willing to divulge whether the Indian export embargo is intractable?

Nothing is forever, but it might not change during your lifetime. ;)

6. Is the supply dwindling linearly since the ban, or do speculators unload stockpiles from time to time to reap max profits?

There are probably warehouses full of the stuff.

7. How do you rate the supply/quality of Sambar stag at Blade?

I thought it was very weak, but I am a picky SOB.

P
 
Cupepper's technique penetrates deeply, but not completely. As for dying the surface of stag, i bought a 5 pound jug of PP crystals, tried them once and then asked Russ Andrews what he used...lol. I have been using Fiebings lether dye since.:D I found some very nice carvers at Blade, but, for the most part, they were smaller and more suitable for hnter sized blades. I found two larger ones one one smaller one that was incredible from that nice Indian couple that i had to scrub and pick at to get the gun out and then dye. But they turned out VERY nice, especilly the smaller pice, whihc is going on my first succesful integral hunter sized knife. I also bought 8 "pre-picked and scrubbed" smaller carvers from one of the main knifemaking supply houses (can't remember which one) and was very pleased.
 
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stephanfowler said:
I spent a LOT of time looking for pieces and only found 2
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I spent a LOT of time on the floor in the back of the hall on Saturday morning to find those 2 bigger pieces, but it didn't take nearly that much time to find the smaller ones. I found a goodly number of hunter sized pieces and a couple that are short but thick enough and the right shape to be perfect for using with a spacer of contrasting material on a lrger knife a la J. Neilson's work . Big carvers were in short supply. Culpepper seemed to have an excellent selction of amber scales but pretty much nothing in the carver or roll department. Ironwood was back with a vengence this year, albeit at some pretty stiff prices. The Jantz folks told me that they started the show with 2000 pairs of scales and over 200 blocks. I walked away with 2 wild blocks of exhibition grade wood in exactly the color scheme i wanted. Goldilocks blocks....not too dark, not too yellow.....juuuuust right..lol. I just didn't see that last year.
 
I didn't miss the little blue face smiling at my accumulated years, Peter. Your subtle reminder is refreshingly different than the unabashed directness employed by my 4 step-kids, who bound down the staircase each morning to peek into my bedroom before I awake to see if the old curmudgeon survived the night.

Thanks for the info,

ken
 
Some SUPERB stag scales from Culpepper on Friday at the show....big pieces, great linear texture.....$60/pair....now I just have to find the right knife for them to be used on.

I was told that Billy Mace Imel had some nice stag for sale, but did not investigate....Gray and Evelyn Taylor passed that info on.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Joe, I'm very interested in the leather dye method, especially given the beautiful, chocolate stag I've seen from Russ. It also jogged my memory that Ray Richards once told me he uses leather dye (brand?) on stag. Can I assume it is out-performs potassium p. by penetrating deeper and, therefore, more durable? Can I assume that the color is more chocolate than amber?

Thanks all of you for input thus far.

ken
 
Culpepper is careful to point out that their stag is Asian stag. I've been led to believe that the very best Sambar stag comes for India, and that Sambar stag reared elsewhere is inferior. STeven reports quality Culpepper stag, which has me wondering about its precise origin--India or somewhere else in Asia. If India, I would think they would be blowing that horn like everyone else who sells real Indian stag.

ken
 
No two pieces of stag seem to absorb the dye quite the same. One may go deep quickly,
while another may not absorb much at all.
To see which way things will go, I generally cut of a thin slice from one end to experiment on.
Feibings is an alcohol base dye...dries cuickly, so I place the stag in a plastic bag
to slow evaporation....seems to help.
The dyes which seem to work best are "Buckskin", "Chocolate", and "Russet". You just
have to experiment a little with each piece for best effect....maybe experiment
with mixing small amounts, or thinning with denatured alcohol.

The brown/tan dyes can seem to have a greenish tint in florescent light, yet
look amber, brown, or redish in incandescent light or sunlight.
Experiment.....
 
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The other neat thing about the spirit based leather dye is that the solids that stay on the surface seem to act as a polishing agent.
 
Ken Williams said:
I'm a sucker for top quality ambered stag, but my knowledge of it is rather woeful, which prompts this call for assistance.

1. Is ambering by Culpepper & Co., Inc. (Mother of Pearl, Inc.) the industry standard/only viable choice?
IMO, they're probably the best, however there's non-commercial processes for ambering stag both before and after the stag shaped for handle fit-up.

2. Do penetration depth and color intensity variance (Culpepper method) create substantive scale matching problems?
Usually close, especially their carvers. I'm in the minority, however I fine a knife more interesting if handle varies a little from side to side.

3. Are there inherent risks (warping/cracking) in the Culpepper method?
Haven't heard of any risk over and above the norm.

4. Is the potassium permanganate surface treatment sufficiently durable and handsome to be a serious contender?
Hit and miss, doesn't seem as consistence.

5. Any clairvoyants willing to divulge whether the Indian export embargo is intractable?
Could happen anytime or never. Anytime would be my guess.

6. Is the supply dwindling linearly since the ban, or do speculators unload stockpiles from time to time to reap max profits?

I see some great pieces and love the stuff. There always seems to be a great piece available for a great knife.

7. How do you rate the supply/quality of Sambar stag at Blade?
Wasn't really looking for amber stag, however wasn't impressed with the ivory and I was looking early. But I'm very picky.

Thanks for your help.

ken
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gotta chip in my 2 cents worth here.....Steve Johnson mentioned that Masecraft also has some nice red stag. Fiebings leather dye seems about best stuff out there. Danny Winkler suggested this to me eons ago. Back b4 dirt, we used to color stag with a torch, of course with MIXED results. Been with folks who used coffee, tea and of course potassium permanganate. I have never received decent results with any of these. Might want to try something I've had success with on stag, getting nice amber tones. Polish the stag with green compound, clean, and then hit with a CLEAN cotton hard contact wheel running 3450 rpms....this actually toasts and colors the stag outer layer. Gotta play with this til you get the results you want.
RE stag supplies.....plenty of FINE stuff out there but it takes lots of $$$$ to bust it out of the warehouses. I'm paying $20 per pair for primo stag with lots of popcorn, 3.5 inch slabs.
 
Good stuff, thanks.

I can vouch for Masecraft stag. My meager stash came from them, and I was well pleased. It sounded to me that they were just about out of the good stuff. The pieces I got had been squirreled away and it took them a week or so to find them. If they had a full warehouse they were keeping the doors locked as of Feb. No one has reported a good selection at Blade, so perhaps their inventory is indeed exhausted.

I did not contact Culpepper because I thought non-Indan stag would be second rate, but according to STeven I was dead wrong.

Searching the web is an exercise in futility because most of it is junk at outrageous prices. From my reference point, Tim, $20 per set of 3.5" primo stag is not bad. I paid $45 for 4.25" scales and $60 for 5" scales, and thought I was getting over. I've seen mediocre stag priced at $90 on the web.

ken
 
You just jogged my memory. Masecraft is there I found my 7 very nice small to medium tapers.......on Satruday no less. Can't wait to be able to get an early crack at their stash and others next year;)
 
Ken Williams said:
I did not contact Culpepper because I thought non-Indan stag would be second rate, but according to STeven I was dead wrong.
ken
Click to expand...

I don't know where the Culpepper stag that I got from originated, but Russ Andrews, Butch Valotton, and Chuck Bybee all told me that what I got was excellent quality stag in appearance, with a very, very small amount of pith that could be ground down.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The stag selection at Blade this year was scare, mainly due to that Bastid Craig Camerer snagging most of it! :D
 
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