American Handgunner article: "Rip-Off!"

trane fan · Aug 1, 2004

I just read a very informative and disturbing article by Roy Huntington entitled "Rip-Off! Looks Can Kill... You" featured in the September/October 2004 issue of "American Handgunner". It focuses on the continuing proliferation of rip-off/knock-off knives being made in China and other "sweat-shop" countries. They are then sold here in the US at flea-markets, swap meets and low-end stores for a fraction of what the genuine knives cost. These substandard pieces of crap ultimately do damage to the reputations, not to mention financial well-being, of the legitimate knife manufacturers. I highly recommend buying a copy. The article itself was well worth the price of the magazine.

HKG36 · Aug 1, 2004

I read the exact same article.....if its has "China" anywhere on the knife DONT buy it.

TorzJohnson · Aug 1, 2004

Kinda old news... Is there anything new in the article beyond what's been discussed on these forums so many times?

trane fan · Aug 1, 2004

HKG36 said:
I read the exact same article.....if its has "China" anywhere on the knife DONT buy it.

The real shame of it is that often times "China" or other telltale words are not stamped on the knife but instead they put the name of the legitimate company on the knife thereby doing even further damage to that company's reputation.

trane fan · Aug 1, 2004

TorzJohnson said:
Kinda old news... Is there anything new in the article beyond what's been discussed on these forums so many times?

Quotes and anecdotes from Duane Dwyer (Strider) and Gary Fadden (Al Mar) help put a "face" to the dilemma. That is what I found to be very compelling.

HKG36 · Aug 1, 2004

Ya, didnt they even put Al Mars logo and TOPS on some of the knives. That makes it pretty hard to tell the differance between real and fake.

Quiet Storm · Aug 1, 2004

I've never handled such a clone that actually had the name of the company they ripped off on it, but I still that it's not very difficult to tell whether it's a genuine American or European-made quality piece or a scrap metal bladed POS made in China.

Lavan · Aug 1, 2004

I was of the same opinion until I got this lil debbil for $11 at Nordic Knives.
It's 440, immaculately finished, and as they said it takes one HECK of an edge....AND....after messin with it for a week or so.....it even HOLDS the edge.
I purposely went out and whittled away at some sunburnt cooked hard blackened old wood and it still shaves like I did nothing with it.

China is gonna use the ole Japan MO and start with crap and gradually improve until it is the best in the world, IMO.

Coors, as I said before, this may be a handmade knife by Hernando China (pronounced Chee-na) the famed Mexican bladesmith.

ARtsig1 · Aug 3, 2004

Love the knife articles that American Handgunner does and this one was no exception.

Paratrooper · Aug 3, 2004

I can't think of one single item made in China that is worth a damn. :barf:

Their edged weapons are bad enough....but their firearms just plain suck.

SIFU1A · Aug 3, 2004

hmmm, nothing wrong with AK's imho, and the food aint bad either lol

MelancholyMutt · Aug 3, 2004

Articles like that are pure racism and trade protectionism. Gerber makes a lot of things in China... CRKT's are all made in Taiwan... most of Kershaws stuff is made in Japan. Opinels are made in France and Bokers in Germany and Brazil. If the focus of the article is copyright and patent infringement, it would be a valid point. To merely point out that people should not buy Chinese goods because it hurts the American economy is rather singling out what is easy to single out because of racial differences. If it is an article about racism, then it would be valid if the writer admits to his motivations. Here, it's just what social scientists call "enlightened racism".

I got news for many of you.. I would venture to guess that 50% of the things you have in your home and work was made, or consists of components made in China... your Motorola FRS radios for example. Your TV remote control is another... Coffee maker components..

Another point is that China is also a major consumer of American goods... boycott chinese goods and all of a sudden, our economy begins to go south as well... Coca-Cola and McDonalds is another example. With billions of consumers, these corporations who employ hundreds of thousands of Americans are profitting and keeping otherwise unemployable Americans in house and home.

Yes, we should protect our intellectual property, but let's do it intelligently and responsibly...

Temper · Aug 3, 2004

Besides a CNC machine working on 440C AUS8 etc in China is going to do the same job as one in Germany, UK or the US. Their wages are just lower.

There really is nothing you can do about it. At least with China there is a big market for US goods and services. In Japan after WWII when Toyoda/Toyota(Yes Toyoda, they started off making sewing machines) Datsun etc al started off they were driven to the edge of bankruptcy. It was protectionism that made buying a foreign made car such an expensive and troublesome pain in the ass that everyone bought indig stuff.

People talk about China but Japan is the biggest rip off country in the history of the world.

trane fan · Aug 3, 2004

Ease back big fellow.

The point of the article was patent and "reputation" infringement. If I was unclear about that I apologize. I neither read nor perceived any racist content and I certainly did not intend any in my short review. My point in brining the article to everyone's attention (and I think the point of the article itself) was to expose the damage that these legitimate companies suffer because of the knock-offs, some of which, as I mentioned earlier, stamp the legitimate companies name onto the POC.

MelancholyMutt said:
Articles like that are pure racism and trade protectionism. Gerber makes a lot of things in China... CRKT's are all made in Taiwan... most of Kershaws stuff is made in Japan. Opinels are made in France and Bokers in Germany and Brazil. If the focus of the article is copyright and patent infringement, it would be a valid point. To merely point out that people should not buy Chinese goods because it hurts the American economy is rather singling out what is easy to single out because of racial differences. If it is an article about racism, then it would be valid if the writer admits to his motivations. Here, it's just what social scientists call "enlightened racism".

I got news for many of you.. I would venture to guess that 50% of the things you have in your home and work was made, or consists of components made in China... your Motorola FRS radios for example. Your TV remote control is another... Coffee maker components..

Another point is that China is also a major consumer of American goods... boycott chinese goods and all of a sudden, our economy begins to go south as well... Coca-Cola and McDonalds is another example. With billions of consumers, these corporations who employ hundreds of thousands of Americans are profitting and keeping otherwise unemployable Americans in house and home.

Yes, we should protect our intellectual property, but let's do it intelligently and responsibly...

Mr.BadExample · Aug 3, 2004

My cousin and his kid are ga-ga over the cheap repros at the Englishtown flea market. I bought him a Camillus Cuda EDC to show him what a better made knife is like. I don't think they'll ever be Sebenza customers, but I'm hoping that when the kid is old enough I can introduce him to Spyderco and Benchmade

It was a good lesson that the $7 MOD ripoff folder they bought FELL APART within a week.

Suerte · Aug 3, 2004

Paratrooper said:
I can't think of one single item made in China that is worth a damn. :barf:

Their edged weapons are bad enough....but their firearms just plain suck.

LOL. The Mak-90 was the best AK clone ever (not mentioning the great pre-Bush ban Polytechs and Norincos). So were their 100rd drums. They also make a great 870 clone. And the 1911 they made was firts rate too (victim of a Clinton ban).

spoonrobot · Aug 3, 2004

Suerte said:
LOL. The Mak-90 was the best AK clone ever (not mentioning the great pre-Bush ban Polytechs and Norincos).

no it wasn't, it's good but not that good. there are numerous other offerings that have sprung up in recent years that are leaps ahead of the mak-90. i don't think it can compete with the newer Veprs and AK-USA made rifles. mikhail kalashnikov himself has said that the bulgarian built AK is/was the best clone of his design. i own both a mak-90(chinese) and a SLR95(bulgarian) and am inclined to agree with him.

nitrox1 · Aug 3, 2004

Leave it to a gun mag to write an honest, no bs, knife article. Not to knock some of the popular knife mags as I regularly read them, but I wonder how they would have written it.
"Chinese made copies offer low cost alternatives to high end consumer knives." "I found the fit and finish to be remarkably adaquate considering the surprising low cost of these knives" "As shipped, the knives come with a working edge, but a few swipes on my EZ-lap had it hair popping sharp".
Hell, I may have just written an article!!

Think I'll submit this to TK.
Take care bro's
John...

Suerte · Aug 3, 2004

spoonrobot said:
no it wasn't, it's good but not that good. there are numerous other offerings that have sprung up in recent years that are leaps ahead of the mak-90. i don't think it can compete with the newer Veprs and AK-USA made rifles. mikhail kalashnikov himself has said that the bulgarian built AK is/was the best clone of his design. i own both a mak-90(chinese) and a SLR95(bulgarian) and am inclined to agree with him.

Maks had better triggers without the "AK slap" (mine was awesome in the take-up and poundage dept too), and I preferred the thick stamped rciever better than milled too. Prices were better, and it was a lighter piece. I also trust the old total Chi-Com parts more than the required American parts on the newer US models. The SLR95 was prettier though. I haven't had an AK in years and have no experience with the AK-103s or Veprs. Both are quite expensive and look pretty though. But I would still trust my old Mak-90 more than an American parts version.

T Schloz · Aug 3, 2004

nitrox1 said:
Leave it to a gun mag to write an honest, no bs, knife article. Not to knock some of the popular knife mags as I regularly read them, but I wonder how they would have written it.
"Chinese made copies offer low cost alternatives to high end consumer knives." "I found the fit and finish to be remarkably adaquate considering the surprising low cost of these knives" "As shipped, the knives come with a working edge, but a few swipes on my EZ-lap had it hair popping sharp".
Hell, I may have just written an article!! Think I'll submit this to TK.
Take care bro's
John...

Hey Nitrox1, I'll bet you've been writing for the knife magazines all along.

Tom

American Handgunner article: "Rip-Off!"

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