American knives in the rest of the world.

[Shing]

I live in a small market town in England. There is one shop where I can buy Victorinox knives and one that sells both Victorinox and French Opinel knives. In the small town a few miles away where I work, there is one shop where I can buy Victorinox knives.

If I look really hard in a big city like London or Birmingham, I could find one or two Spyderco knives.

If I want a Case, Kershaw or Benchmade knife, there are a few specialist importers I can get them from but not anywhere else.

I am wondering why Victorinox and Opinel, with its high labour costs and usual developed country red tape BS can sell its knives in England and all over the world but American companies can't or won't.

 

[Mephtyrm]

I'd guess that with the rest of the world, with all those crazy restrictive knife laws,
most American knife companies wouldn't want to deal with that directly.
America makes the most "Tactical" knives in the world, they have locks and one-handed opening,
which of course many other country's knife laws don't allow.

 

[PayetteRucker]

Mephtyrm is probably right. Most foreign gun companies I can think of are either world renowned leading names (like GLOCK) or have factories in the US that crank out alot of the parts, and then assemble them here (like SIG). Between import laws, tax laws and dealing with foreign weapon-related laws, a company would have to have an entire legal team to sort out the headache. Why make your company pay for all of that stuff when you can make the customer pay the shipping and terrifs to import the product by themselves? It sucks. There are alot of firearms available in other countries (Like a .260 Tikka Varmint) that for wacked out reasons just aren't available here.

I have a cart from Heinnie that is 500 euros-worth of knives that aren't readily available in the United States. Some day when I have the money on hand I'm going to punch my Visa number in there and hope between the shipping and customs, I won't have to sell my left kidney. I wonder if it would be easier for forum members in the US to buy the product here and then ship it to England, and vice versa. My dad often does this with bicycles. He's got a back room full of handbuilt bicycles made overseas that he had people in Germany and England purchase and ship to him, and he often does the same for them.

 

[ASBOB]

Could it be customs and tariffs? Switzerland and France are both part of the EEC. I noticed when I was in France or germany there were no Toyotas on the road, and few in GB, indicating restricted markets. I don't knoe emough about these market areas to know for sure, but just a thought.

 

[stoffi]

Switzerland is not a part of the EEC. They aren't even in the EU. They are a part of EFTA though.

I'd say prices are the reason why there aren't so many US brands readily available. Many of the popular brands are available here in Sweden though, but a US knife which costs lets say 100USD will cost considerably more (180-220USD) once it is in a store. We have all kinds of very expensive taxes and must compensate for those in order to make profit. Then there's the rent and so on. It doesn't matter if it is a knife or a italian chair. Nobody will stock up considerably on expensive foreign items (small market compared to US). Most of the time they'll stock up on a bunch and then order more, which usually takes weeks and weeks and weeks, yet it takes a week to order stuff by yourself. I never understood that last part. Most people I know who want to buy foreign gear (US, HK, France whatever) will order it themselves (women excluded). It's just cheaper, even with shipping, taxes and customs fares.

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

Could it be customs and tariffs? Switzerland and France are both part of the EEC. I noticed when I was in France or germany there were no Toyotas on the road, and few in GB, indicating restricted markets. I don't knoe emough about these market areas to know for sure, but just a thought.

That there aren't as much toyota's on the streets in France is not due to restricted markets. It's what I see as healthy chauvinism. What will you see mostly on French roads? Peugeot, Citroën,... --> French cars. They are made their and are usually quite cheap. Same in Germany with mercedes, bmw... The same counts for USA imo. In Europe, you'll have to look hard to spot a hummer, a dodge, a chevvy... Quite the contrary in USA.

Anyway, back on topic. I myself blame ridiculous knife laws. For instance, since a new weapons law in my country, fixed blades and daggers are allowed. Folders that lock automatically (lockback, linerlock...), however, are forbidden weapons. Quite strange since a lock is never as strong as a full tang... Second strange thing: you can buy imported lockbacks and linerlocks in some stores over here (at a ridiculously higher price than in USA -therefore I order them online-), but they're forbidden "weapons", yet you can buy them?
Furthermore, there are custom knifemakers in my country that make lockbaks, linerlocks, framelock knives (which are beautiful) but an sich... it's against the law.

Oh, what a weapon exactly is, is not thoroughly described in our law. The law says: weapon= an object taken by hand with the intention of hurting or killing someone. The law doesn't specifically say knives or guns. However, if you walk on the street with a knife, and the police spots you with it... You have to have a legal reason for carrying it with you (which, in reality, is only applicable to law enforcement). So, you will be seen as carrying an illegal "weapon" (eventhough you didn't have the intention of hurting/killing). You'll get fined, maybe court, you'll get a record... Now, when I walk on the street with a balloint pen, a screwdriver or any-other-thing-that-could-wound-or-kill, I'll be fine.
Hypocrisy, much?

EDIT: perhaps, knife culture in Europe isn't thàt big, people might not care as much. Hence, demand is rather low so USA companies don't see any reason to expand their supply? Just a hypothesis...

 

[PayetteRucker]

Example of Not-Made-Here Syndrome as to the Toyotas, maybe. The US has many similar laws-most of the time they don't make sense from our end. Why I can carry an automatic double bladed folder, but not a fixed blade without a concealed carry permit, that much is beyond me. A folder closes for convenience of carry and safety. An assisted or automatic folder is designed for fast draw, which the main reason would seem to be self defense or aggressive action. A fixed blade is just a fixed blade... blades have been fixed for tens of thousands of years. If a folder were designed for rapid deployment for purposes of violence, why can I carry it but not a fixed blade without a carry permit? I have one, so it isn't a big deal to me, but sometimes it makes you wonder.

 

[Steven65]

I am wondering why Victorinox and Opinel, with its high labour costs and usual developed country red tape BS can sell its knives in England and all over the world but American companies can't or won't.

It's all about the UK distributers. Obviously the UK distributers for Victorinox and Opinel are doing their job correctly and the others are basically not.

For examples there are always complaints about the UK Spyderco distributer. No stock, long lead times and zero interest in sprint runs.

I know of no small company who distributes their own products internationally. It is simply not practical. They appoint a local distributer to handle the local business and that is that.

Here in South Africa we have several excellent distributers which explains why Kershaw, Victorinox, CRKT, Leatherman. Spyderco and others are in every outdoor and camping shop countrywide. While Case, who to my knowledge has never had a South African distributer, is almost unknown here.

 

[pbonanza]

Forget American knives, I want to know why sharps made by blokes in Derbyshire aren't in all the camping shops around me. They should be!!

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Apparently, not only in my country, knives made in USA (or with USA brand, made elsewhere) has inflated price. A CS Recon (new, with Triad-lock) displayed and sold at 150 USD! Endura 4 FFG was around 120 USD.

Unfortunately, the law and regulation are not made clear either, so trying to import one legally (full disclosure, including price) might not get the item passed.

One of the reason I EDC Chinese made knives (Sanrenmu, Enlan, Navy) is that the site that sells them, send them to me as 'kitchen utensil' or 'gardening tools' and the price is low enough not to invoke import duty.

 

[PayetteRucker]

I'd take that Sheffield Army Survival Knife over half of the American designed military survival knives any day...

 

[wyattT]

i was in paris two weeks ago and armes bastille and some of the other big knife shops had, esee, cold steel, crk, strider, a few busse, boker, a few spyderco, bench made and a few other american customs I'm forgetting....

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

i was in paris two weeks ago and armes bastille and some of the other big knife shops had, esee, cold steel, crk, strider, a few busse, boker, a few spyderco, bench made and a few other american customs I'm forgetting....

At what price rate were they selling?

 

[forcedestrike]

Plenty of knives available in the UK from ALL major American makers- http://heinnie.com/ , disregard the propaganda above- while the UK knife laws are restrictive many countries including France have better knife laws than some U.S States! (No restrictions of type of knife in France besides 18+)

BF is a very American dominated forum (not necessarily a bad thing) so if you want to learn about knives from local sources or for local advise then join your countries blade forum (most EU countries have their own forum for knives- we are not that small of a community).

 

[Shotgun]

Example of Not-Made-Here Syndrome as to the Toyotas, maybe. The US has many similar laws-most of the time they don't make sense from our end. Why I can carry an automatic double bladed folder, but not a fixed blade without a concealed carry permit, that much is beyond me. A folder closes for convenience of carry and safety. An assisted or automatic folder is designed for fast draw, which the main reason would seem to be self defense or aggressive action. A fixed blade is just a fixed blade... blades have been fixed for tens of thousands of years. If a folder were designed for rapid deployment for purposes of violence, why can I carry it but not a fixed blade without a carry permit? I have one, so it isn't a big deal to me, but sometimes it makes you wonder.

One state over and we're the complete opposite. I can't carry an auto or a balisong but I can walk down the street with a kukri on my hip. Which is more dangerous?

 

[A.L.]

I am wondering why Victorinox and Opinel, with its high labour costs and usual developed country red tape BS can sell its knives in England and all over the world but American companies can't or won't.

Amount of demand. Less population; less market. Also high prices. Victorinoxes and opinels also cost fraction. Also the mythos and ancient beliefs lingering around anything "swiss" makes people buy them. Anything 200€ and USA.. do you really believe, that small minded hick will buy it? Kind of like small minded hick in USA buying French car.

 

[jackknife]

Most likely, it comes down to sheer economics and production numbers.

Victorinox and Opinel are two of the biggest, most automated knife factories in the world. Their monthly production numbers are greater than most of the annual production numbers of Case, GEC, Benchmade, Buck, or any other American knife company. It's been several years since, but Knife world magazine had an article on Victorinox, and they were making 35 million knives a year. Think about that for a minute. Since 1963, Buck says it has made 10 million folding hunters. It took them four and a half decades to do that. But Victorinox makes 9 million of their little keychain classics every year. Sak tinkers, soldiers, and other models round out the mix. Every single year. They do it by having the latest high speed production machinery there is to have. Their plant is one of the most automated in the world. No wonder their products are found in abundance in every corner of the world at good prices. Same for Opinel. Both Vic and Opinel make more knives in a single day, than the American companies do in a month.

By comparison, most American cutlery companies are not owned by the people who founded them anymore, and often by people who just care about the bottom line. That's why you got Camillus and Schrade going out of business. They couldn't compete with the European companies while using old out of date machines and tooling that was worn out. The newer boutique companies make small production runs, and cater to a much smaller market of knife enthusiasts. In most of the rest of the world, people who are not knife knits are going to pay X amount of dollars for an American knife with one or two blades like a GEC traditional, or a single blade tactical knife like a Bechmade, when they can spend the same X amount of dollars and buy a Victorinox tinker that gives them two knife blades, two different size flat screw drivers, a phillips screw driver, can opener, bottle opener, awl, not to mention tweezers and toothpick. It's economics and practicality. Shocking as it may be, most of the rest of the worlds population are not knife enthusiasts. Most of them don't even care to carry a knife these days. If they do, they don't want to spend a large amount of money, want something that is legal in their own more restrictive country or city, and don't know anything about the miracle steel of the month. They don't even care. That's why the French guy is driving a Citroen, the Italian guy is driving a Fiat, and the English guy is driving a Vauxhall. It gets the job done for what they care to spend. If they are not car nuts, they don't care that a Porshe is faster or a Benz is glitzier.

It's economics and practicality.

Carl.