An Old Jack Dilemma!!??

[waynorth]

This is a presumed-Ebony handled, nice little Jack!! A handy 3 1/4", it is definitely not over-used, with nice snap and half stops!! It is Tang stamped A. Field & Co (over) Progress !! Progress is a name that was used by A. Field to label their pocket knives!!
It has steel bolsters and pins, but brass liners!! Some tight pin cracks in the Ebony, not bothersome!!
Here's my Dilemma; by the usual standards which we date knives here it tells me it's an older knife!!
There is no country of origin, nor any place name that suggests dealer, or manufacturer!! Do any of you Porchians see a suggestion as to these questions?? Age or maker??? Your facts, or opinions are welcomed here!! I'll answer any questions to the best of my abilities!!
Thanks!!!
CC

 

[DeltaTrain]

According to this 1938 Arthur Fields & Co. catalog, it seems to have been made by Joseph Rogers & Co. I don't see that exact knife in this catalog, but of course sometimes models offered change over time. No. 29773 St. looks very similar, except it is stag and 3 1/2". According to the front page of the catalog, they sold a variety of tools & cutlery made in the U.S., France, Germany, and England. Here's the link: https://archive.org/details/AlfredFieldAndCo1938Catalog/page/n9/mode/2up. Or maybe I'm completely wrong lol.

 

[afishhunter]

Could it be NYKC or Catt manufacture?
I think Mr. Primble posted a NYKC or CATT jack a while back that if my memory is functional was very similar. Especially the main blade.

Sorry. I'll go back under my rock and be "shhhhhh".

Going by post number two, I am way off.

I'll not delete my post in case Mr. Primble knows the answers.

 

[Primble]

Goins says the knives marked with "Progress" were a complete line of American made knives. It looks American made to me.

The New York Knife Company used that exact shield often and they also made many jacks that size with the short end-cap. The blade nicks look like NYKC nicks. Fields had an office during that time in New York City, as well as offices in Sheffield and Solingen.

So my best guess is NYKC, but, just a guess. It's kinda like guessing who made many of the Belknap Hardware Primble knives.

If it was made by NYKC, then it was likely pre-1929, since not many knives were produced there after that time. Mostly night watchmen after the depression hit.

Maybe you could just say " Look at my nice little A. Fields Progress jack-knife "

It's a nice little jack, by the way !

 

[waynorth]

The New York Knife Company used that exact shield often and they also made many jacks that size with the short end-cap. The blade nicks look like NYKC nicks.

Wow! Good, reasonable evidence it's a New York Knife production!!

Mostly night watchmen after the depression hit.

Maybe a form of lunchbox knife?? A midnight snack knife??

 

[herder]

Alfred Field is a fascinating cutlery retailer which sold many brands throughout their history. I wrote an article for "Knife Magazine" about them several years back and through research at that time, I believe that the Schrade Cutlery Company produced the majority of the American-made knives for "Progress", which was just one line from Fields. Some of the Progress models did align with New York Knife Company, but I believe that the posted knife was made by Schrade. While both N.Y.K. and Schrade offered a similar handle shield as the knife posted, Schrade's "bomb" type is closer to the model shown. That's a fine old knife which I believe dates from the early 1900s to early 1920s.

I tried posting a picture, but a notice said that I have reached the maximum number of pictures allowed???

 

[waynorth]

Alfred Field is a fascinating cutlery retailer which sold many brands throughout their history. I wrote an article for "Knife Magazine" about them several years back and through research at that time, I believe that the Schrade Cutlery Company produced the majority of the American-made knives for "Progress", which was just one line from Fields. Some of the Progress models did align with New York Knife Company, but I believe that the posted knife was made by Schrade. While both N.Y.K. and Schrade offered a similar handle shield as the knife posted, Schrade's "bomb" type is closer to the model shown. That's a fine old knife which I believe dates from the early 1900s to early 1920s.

I tried posting a picture, but a notice said that I have reached the maximum number of pictures allowed???

One of my guesses was a Schrade, but I did not want to influence anyone's answers!!
I suspect you are right, Neal!!

I haven't run into the "picture posting" dilemma yet, probably because I bite the bullet and pay for a higher level membership!! I understand there is a way to cut back/erase some of your old posts if they are irrelevant, to gain more room . . . . .or you can bite the bullet!!

 

[waynorth]

I believe that the Schrade Cutlery Company produced the majority of the American-made knives for "Progress"

Look what I found while combing through my (way too many) Schrade Jacks!!
Exactly the same length of 3 1/4", the other differences are minor - a rattail on the A. Field, and handles; other small variance - I think it must be a Schrade - made knife!!!

Thanks to all who took a stab at this (pun intended!)
You got it, Neal!!

 

[eisman]

I actually like the thinner main blade more. And it's thinner nail groove. Very nice Jacks, Charlie!

 

[wlfryjr]

I was researching and scanning once while you determined the maker.

Camillus made A Fields, Schatt made A Fields, Schrade ,and whoever else, there's lots of makers to choose from. They had offices in 3 different places in England, an office in Soligen , Germany, and in NY.

Bill Howard has an A Fields box he got from the Queen factory , which was Schatt and Morgan once upon a time. The ebony handle is a Schatt and the bone is A Fields made by Schatt , both an early 3 3/4" version of a farmers jack more common at 4".





Two of the five knives below are marked Camillus and two are marked A Fields.

 

[waynorth]

I actually like the thinner main blade more. And it's thinner nail groove. Very nice Jacks, Charlie!

Thanks!!

Camillus made A Fields, Schatt made A Fields, Schrade ,and whoever else, there's lots of makers to choose from. They had offices in 3 different places in England, an office in Soligen , Germany, and in NY.

Bill Howard has an A Fields box he got from the Queen factory , which was Schatt and Morgan once upon a time. The ebony handle is a Schatt and the bone is A Fields made by Schatt , both an early 3 3/4" version of a farmers jack more common at 4".

You've done lots of research, Lyle!! I love your comparison shots!!!

It would be a monumental book to write: The History of A. Field & Co!!!!

 

[Primble]

One of my guesses was a Schrade, but I did not want to influence anyone's answers!!
I suspect you are right, Neal!!

My other guess was maybe Schrade because they used that shield a lot, but, so did NYKC.
The way the long pull is tooled on the main looks more like NYKC. I'll stick with my guess.

Look at the main and shield on this NYKC and you might see why I chose them over Schrade ....... or maybe not ..... it's all guessing anyway.

 

[waynorth]

My other guess was maybe Schrade because they used that shield a lot, but, so did NYKC.

In the 20s especially, Schrade and NYK collaborated with each other; they even shared a bone jigging/manufacturing facility for a time!!

 

[BigKurtHaze]

Fantastic jigging in this thread!

 

[Primble]

In the 20s especially, Schrade and NYK collaborated with each other; they even shared a bone jigging/manufacturing facility for a time!!

You're just muddying up the waters now so you can claim you won !
You already called it for Schrade anyway.

Looks like I came in third place. Any prizes for third ?

I'm going back to my "Spring into Spring with a "Barlow a Day for Thirty Days"
There's going to be prizes over there.

( I ain't so sure I lost neither )

 

[waynorth]

You're just muddying up the waters now so you can claim you won !
You already called it for Schrade anyway.

It's true, honest!!! Haven't you ever noticed the similarity between older Schrade jigging and NYK's??? Made in the same Bone shop!! Ask Eric Albers!!! ea42 !!

 

[waynorth]

There's going to be prizes over there.

Gee, that reminds me - I should go over there also !!! Probably won't win any prizes though!!!

 

[Campbellclanman]

I absolutely love this, looks like you have its DNA brother next to your mystery knife Charlie.

Awesome reading so thank you to the fine contributors

 

[Primble]

Look what I found while combing through my (way too many) Schrade Jacks!!View attachment 2525133View attachment 2525134View attachment 2525135
Exactly the same length of 3 1/4", the other differences are minor - a rattail on the A. Field, and handles; other small variance - I think it must be a Schrade - made knife!!!

Thanks to all who took a stab at this (pun intended!)
You got it, Neal!!

Look at the skinny and tapered pull on the main blade of the Progress knife compared to your Schrade. Completely different tooling and more indicative of the New York Knife Company.

In the 20s especially, Schrade and NYK collaborated with each other; they even shared a bone jigging/manufacturing facility for a time!!

Muddy muddy muddy waters and what does bone jigging have to do with smooth Ebony ?

If Schrade Cut. Co. and NYKC were so cozy as to use the same facility for jigging in what is usually a highly guarded "trade secret" in the cutlery business, it stands to reason that they traded shields as well.

I'm going back to my "Spring into Spring with a "Barlow a Day for Thirty Days"

( I ain't so sure I lost neither )

I told you that I was going back to my thread "Spring into Spring with a "Barlow a Day for Thirty Days" and you keep quoting me ..... to persuade me that your Progress knife was made by Schrade. Maybe it was ...... maybe not ...... I stand by my guess. I am the dissenter.

It's true, honest!!! Haven't you ever noticed the similarity between older Schrade jigging and NYK's??? Made in the same Bone shop!! Ask Eric Albers!!! ea42 !!

Maybe similar on the pick bone, which I think is what he said. I remember him saying that, but, I wondered if it might have been an "oops moment". I've never seen it written ....... on the other hand he does have that book on the New York Knife Company that nobody else seems to have and he is from the area, so maybe it is local knowledge.



Well ..... I'm gone for good, back off to the "Spring into Spring with a "Barlow a Day for Thirty Days" .......... this time no amount of quoting is going to bring me back. Your dilemma is solved in favoritism of the Schrade Cut. Co.

I reckon that I've caused enough stress for one or maybe two days ......... but ....... one last thing ........ I'm pretty sure I noticed a partial and very very faint sledge hammer etch on your A. Fields "Progress" jack knife blade.

 

[wlfryjr]

The Walden Cutlery Handle Company was a Co-op of NYK, Walden , and Schrade. This was prior to the invention of the jigging machine, George Schrade invented his jigging machine in 1925. . However it was done , it was done in hand by a man.

". In 1915 it was again necessary to enlarge the plant.The resulting building gave the Schrade Company a modern three story building. About this time the company purchased the plant occupied by the Walden Cutlery Handle Company. This was a company formed by all three of the knife factories to manufacture imitation "Stag" handles. These "Stag" handles were made of bone and sold to other knife factories. The company was commonly called the "Stag Shop". For some reason or other it did not achieve the success expected of it."

https://www.thewaldenhouse.org/LHD%202012/Knife%20Industry.pdf

They were a producer or the producer of the style pick bone shown below , which has indicatively underlying furrows which became dark lines on worn examples. These ,sometimes zig zagging and X-ing across the handles on one that's worn. I attempted to show in the post below , but for some reason my attachments are limited.???s


1. NYK unused pick bone
2. NYK shows the deep underscores which result in the dark lines mentioned above on worn examples