An overlooked sword

L

Lavan

Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
2,301
I don't understand the disdain that many apply to the late Japanese machine made swords. Even though it is KNOWN that they were made for battle, they are priced as if they were made for bumpers.
(Now they may have been made FROM bumpers, but they are still serviceable blades)
They are cheaper than modern replicas that are made for simple decorators.
It just seems a bit strange and illogical.
 
Hhehe... because what many people want from a nihonto is not just a servicable blade. Don't ask me why... I'm not a katana addict.
smile.gif

 
Machine-made Showato typically do not get any real disdain except from Nihonto collectors and of course organizations like the NBTHK.

Typically they are of lower quality than higher quality Nihonto, but some can be okay. Some are given the clay treat, some are given a full oil quench, some are OK balanced, a good number of them are not balanced well at all. As they have no real historical value, they can be modified a little bit without any serious repercussions. They are usually much cheaper...but you are still paying for quality...the good Showato can run $800-$1000 pretty easily....

You have to be careful with what you buy and who you buy it from. If you don't know a lot about swords, the best thing would be to get a second informed opinion before buying.

Shinryû.
 
Of course some of the machine made blades ARE complete junk. Some of the later swords I have seen especially the ones designated NCO swords aren't worth owning.
 
I can remember when Japanese Nambu pistols AND German Lugers were considered to have no historical value.

I would hesitate to dump ANY blade specifically MADE for battle, even if it was crude and less than ideal.

I have had a few Japanese blades over the years. Presently I only own a naginata style tanto and one of these numbered swords.
But it is very nice looking. I would swear that it has a faint straight temper line and looks far better than most I have seen. BUT it still has a stamped serial number on the blade and the scabbard.
 
People who collect Militaria will generally appreciate those kinds of items...however the vast majority of Japanese sword collectors will not. And I'd suggest AGAINST taking it to Japan unless it's a papered Nihonto, as it'll get confiscated and possibly destroyed otherwise.

Shinryû.

(note, forgot the against! not a good mistake!)

[This message has been edited by Robert Marotz (edited 12-05-2000).]
 
It all depends on what you want I guess. For the same money that I would spend on a gunto I can get a sword by Atrim or even Arms and Armor. I would rather have one of them.
 
Be they junk of whatever don't fool yourselves. As collectors items that are becoming more popuar all the time. This is very simple to expain. When certain items become too expensive to collect peope look to other but similar item that interest them. I've seen this in knives and guns for 30 years. When the best ends up in private collections and for most part is unaffordable peope take to the next best thing. If you like them now BUY THEM NOW
BUY THE BEST SPECIMANS YOU CAN afford and then wait for the market to catch up up you.
I've been watching this trend towards the machine made swords for a couple years now.
And in other collectibes for a lifetime. Is everybody else blind?
 
Could you explain that last line for me I'm afraid I don't get it.
 
Triton:
If you're referring to Tom's post, I think he was just describing the trends he's seen in collecting edged weapon militaria lately, partially because some people feel that in a collectible sense the high end Nihonto are sort of prohibitive in price and availability (many of the best specimens are in collections).

To a point this is true...but also to a different degree, the sword organizations in Japan and the Japanese government do not recognize them as swords anymore. Many Nihonto collectors feel that the military blades have little value. And that's true, depending on who you are of course. If there was no inherent interest in the swords as militaria though, I doubt there would be efforts taken to write books to extensively examine the different types.

The value of such swords is variable, depending on who you talk to. But as with all collectibles, militaria and non, the value generally appreciates with time. Particularly if you find a less common, well made one.

They were swords, they are militaria, they're cheaper than Nihonto, and they are no longer made. So there is at least a little value in collecting them.

Doesn't mean I have to like them
biggrin.gif


Shinryû.
 
I went back and reread the line again, and finally realized that it was the punctuation that though me. Now I get it.

I would agree that some things become more valuable over time especially if they are well made and/or beautiful. I am an avid watcher of the antiques roadshow and this is borne out time and again there. On the other hand another thing that is brought out on the antiques roadshow is that sometimes old junk is just old junk. I'm not saying all gunto are old junk by any means but a lot of them definately are. Rocks are old to but that doesn't necessarily make them worth anything. If something doesn't exhibit the characteristics that make it valuable to a set of collectors its value will not appreciate.

[This message has been edited by Triton (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
Titon and others. I express myself very poorly at times please try to keep that in mind i'm not hostile and woud never turn the best and most gentlemany forum of them all trashy.
I grew up around the gun business. These were simple observations from what I've seen before. Items become in denamand and rise in price to where only the very wealthy can afford them. they end up in private coections unavailible to the average guy. the guy doesn't quit collecting but looks to other places to put his money. That, i strongy beieve is going to happen in the very swords the post mentioned. I see it already. There is a small but growing market. They are a very good investment right now and will continue so. Like aways guys buy what you like and enjow having them. I'll wait til i can come here and say I told you so for the guy that is buying what everybody likes to cal JUNK today.
Tom
PS thanks for I all learned here. We might be smal but this is the best forum of the bunch.
 
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