Angle change on Manix should be illegal

bladeprince

bladeprince

Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
956
Using a Sharpmaker, I have just recently been using a 30 degree total angle for my sharpening edge. So far, only on two S30V knifes and the first one still needs some more work (Ritter Grip). I must say, I really like the results.

The other day I decided to convert to a 15 degree angle on my Manix. WOW, this knife sould be illegal :D . What a difference from 20 degrees and what a cutting/slicing machine. With S30V steel and its big, beautiful, flat grind blade, I know this baby would cut through a leather or denim jacket like a tee-shirt. Daily needs like cardboard don't even deserve hardly mentioning.

I carry it in a custom sheath and as time goes my, it is becoming one of my favorite EDC. With the knew edge, it it now right up there with my Ritter Grip, Spy Paramilitary, BM 710, and BM AFCK as one of the favorite folders I own. As I use it more, I am continually impressed, and ever more now with the new edge angle. I have to treat the edge on this knife more like a razor.

I want to thank those that helped me understand more about edge angles and sharpening. I learned much, with much more to learn.

I would like to try 12 degrees or even 10 but the Sharpmaker does have that capability. Probably I don't need to go that far considering the results I got at 15 degrees. But if I did, what would be the best sharpening kit to purchase?

I hope this doesn't get moved to the Spyderco forum. My main point is about sharpening. The Manix just responded to the edge change at a surprising level and is one heck of a knife on it's own.

Regards and thanks
 
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redhawk44p said:
I have been reprofiling my knives to 15 degrees too. It makes a great difference. I use this grinder to make it easier.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35098
Click to expand...

Does it have attachments to hold the knife at a desired angle? How do you sharpen a recurve blade with it? When using the Sharpmaker, I have to tilt my hand as I move across the rods to keep the blade as perpendicular as possible to the rod.

Thanks
 
Did you actually reprofile the edge, or did you just sharpen at 30*? I've heard that S30V takes a LONG time to reprofile on the Sharpmaker, unless you use the diamond stones. Cliff Stamp did a test with a small Sebenza (S30V) and it took 1,050 swipes just to reprofile ONE side.
 
bladeprince said:
I would like to try 12 degrees or even 10 but the Sharpmaker does have that capability. Probably I don't need to go that far considering the results I got at 15 degrees. But if I did, what would be the best sharpening kit to purchase?
Click to expand...

Going from 15 -> 10 is about double the change of 20 -> 15. You can sharpen at 10 degrees on the Sharpmaker easily, just jam something under one side to cut the 20 degree angle in half.

-Cliff
 
Django606 said:
Did you actually reprofile the edge, or did you just sharpen at 30*? I've heard that S30V takes a LONG time to reprofile on the Sharpmaker, unless you use the diamond stones. Cliff Stamp did a test with a small Sebenza (S30V) and it took 1,050 swipes just to reprofile ONE side.
Click to expand...


I did about 100 swipes on each edge and it wasn't the diamond rods. Are you saying that I only sharpend a very small amount of the edge and that I need to do much more work to really get a true 15 degrees?
 
Cliff Stamp said:
You can sharpen at 10 degrees on the Sharpmaker easily, just jam something under one side to cut the 20 degree angle in half.
-Cliff
Click to expand...

Good tip....thanks. Why didn't I think of that...:confused:
 
bladeprince said:
I did about 100 swipes on each edge and it wasn't the diamond rods. Are you saying that I only sharpend a very small amount of the edge and that I need to do much more work to really get a true 15 degrees?
Click to expand...


If you were hitting the edge on both sides at 15 degrees, you got yourself a 15 degree edge. If you weren't, you were more likely hitting the shoulder and grinding in a sort of relief behind the edge. I'm by no means an expert but thats what it sounds like to me.
 
Yeah, there's no way you reprofiled the primary bevel to 15* with 100 strokes per side. Like I said, on an S30V Sebenza it took Cliff 1050 strokes just to reprofile one side.

The only other answer to this is that the Manix was ground with 15* bevels from the factory, and you were just sharpening the primary bevel.
 
I re-profiled my Manix to 10 degrees per side, and then tested micro-bevel angles sufficient for whittling hardwood. For whittling hardwoods, the edge stabilized with micro-bevels of 15 degrees per side.

The edge doesn't hold up for a micro-bevel angle less than 15 degrees per side for hardwoods. Test media was an old rake handle of unknown hardwood.

For profiling, I used a DMT Coarse (Blue) diamond stone, followed by finer grits of abrasive paper on the Handamerican Scary Sharp rig to polish out the coarse grind marks from the DMT stone.

Touch-ups are a breeze, using the fine grit (White) side of the little hand-held Spyderco DoubleStuff ceramic stone. It responds well to stropping, but the difference between stropping and fine-stoning is barely perceptible.

It's a great slicer, but not a match for my 440V Military blade. The 440V blade holds up well with the same main bevel of 20 degrees included, but stabilizes with a narrower micro-bevel of about 25 degrees included (same hardwood test).
 
Django606 said:
Yeah, there's no way you reprofiled the primary bevel to 15* with 100 strokes per side. Like I said, on an S30V Sebenza it took Cliff 1050 strokes just to reprofile one side.

The only other answer to this is that the Manix was ground with 15* bevels from the factory, and you were just sharpening the primary bevel.
Click to expand...

I'd say we have no idea how many strokes per side it might take, unless we know the starting angle. I think your second statement is the correct one, Spyderco likely is sharpening closer to 15 degrees to start, and any 20 degree sharpening previously was probably just creating a secondary bevel. 100 strokes to sharpen the secondary bevel away, that's believeable. If bladeprince actually raised a burr during this, that's proof positive he made it to the edge. If he didn't raise a burr, and just did side-to-side sharpening, we have no way of knowing. A good reason to use the burr method!

Joe
 
bladeprince said:
Does it have attachments to hold the knife at a desired angle? How do you sharpen a recurve blade with it? When using the Sharpmaker, I have to tilt my hand as I move across the rods to keep the blade as perpendicular as possible to the rod.

Thanks
Click to expand...

It does not have an angle guide but the slow speed makes it easy to hold the angle.

You could not sharpen a recurve on it, at least I couldn't.

It saves lots of time regrinding the bevel by hand though.
 
Joe Talmadge said:
100 strokes to sharpen the secondary bevel away, that's believeable.
Click to expand...

As long as the primary was under 15 yes, however removing a secondary bevel on S30V actually takes longer even on large benchstones. It sounds to me like one micro-bevel was just traded for a less obtuse one and the primary is more acute. Most Spyderco's I have seen recently are under 15 per side.

-Cliff
 
There was a burr on the rear portion of the blade but not the front. I suspect that is because of the difference in pressure I applied. I will resharpen until I feel a burr along the entire edge. The portion of the blade that had a burr I do notice as feeling the sharpest.

Regards and thanks
 
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