Aniline dye for presentation box

Langadune

Langadune

Joined
Apr 19, 2012
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I working on an inlay for the lid of a presentation box. The idea is to carve a figure into the wood, fill it with colored epoxy, then sand it all down smooth and finally use ebony aniline dye on the the wood (poplar) to give it a very dark finish. I've never worked with aniline before but I know from experience that poplar doesn't take stain very well and I want it dark. Does this plan seem viable? I've experimented and I know stain would discolor my epoxy inlay but I'm not sure what aniline dye will do. I want the colored epoxy to still "pop" when all the final finish is done.
 
I've worked some with aniline dyes, (alcohol based) and I don't think they soak in very deep. There are better ways to ebonize woods, but I don't know how they would all interact with the epoxy. I'd say experiment on scraps.
 
It's important to distinguish the difference between a stain and a dye. You probably already know this, but a stain is basically pigments suspended in a thin binder, or glue. They only color wood on the surface, by the pigment lodging in the pores of the wood. They usually don't do much to a closed grain wood like poplar. Dyes, however, are a liquid solution of totally transparent dyestuff. It's kind of like KoolAid. The liquid goes deep into the wood, and colors the wood from within. Because dyes are transparent, they give much more vibrant colors than stains.

A good quality black aniline dye should get that poplar dark as night. It shouldn't affect your epoxy filling much, if you have sanded it smooth, and left no sand scratches for the dye to go. I would recommend sanding the epoxy to 600 grit or so, and wipe a little of the dye on, to see if it marks. The dyes are all very similar, the main difference to us being what they are dissolved in. They are dissolved in oil, water, alcohol, acetone, and a variety of other chemicals. You might want to try a water soluble aniline dye, as the water would be too weak to "bite" into the epoxy, and cause discoloration.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Sam
 
Poplar can get blotchy which has given it a real bad rap for colored finishes. A coat or two of sealer will help prevent a lot of the blotches. If you seal and then wipe with water, you can see the areas that might need a little more attention as the wood dries. The areas that dry slowly need more sealer. You don't want to seal it off completely, just even out the absorption.

Sam's right, a water-based aniline dye will get the poplar black as ebony and should have litte effect on the cured epoxy.

Test things out on scrap before committing to the final project!
 
Poplar can get blotchy which has given it a real bad rap for colored finishes. A coat or two of sealer will help prevent a lot of the blotches. If you seal and then wipe with water, you can see the areas that might need a little more attention as the wood dries. The areas that dry slowly need more sealer. You don't want to seal it off completely, just even out the absorption.

Sam's right, a water-based aniline dye will get the poplar black as ebony and should have litte effect on the cured epoxy.

Test things out on scrap before committing to the final project!
 
Thanks guys. I've got some water based dye ordered.
I actually intend to sand to 1000 or higher in the hope of getting a glass-like polish on the epoxy. I'll definitely be experimenting before I commit.
 
With using aniline dye, the poplar is sure to fur up. You will definitely need to resand, as fine as necessary and go over it more times. Probably after three or four the wood grain will stop raising. Frank
 
Frank Niro said:
With using aniline dye, the poplar is sure to fur up. You will definitely need to resand, as fine as necessary and go over it more times. Probably after three or four the wood grain will stop raising. Frank
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Frank is right. You can avoid this problem if you wet the wood with water before you dye it. Let it dry, and then take some fresh, sharp 320 grit or so sandpaper and lightly sand it on a bias (barely sideways). This will cut off the raised grain, and if you sand it just lightly enough to remove the raised grain, and don't get heavy-handed about it, the grain won't raise again through the rest of the finishing process. Wood is hydrophilic, and likes to absorb water. It expands when it does so, and that is what causes the grain to "pop" up. Once removed, if you don't sand too heavily, it won't do it again, usually.

You will have to sand again as part of the finishing process anyway, so if the grain raises a little along the way, it doesn't really matter, as it gets sanded in between coats.

Sam
 
Thanks again guys. The dye is on the way and I'm anxious to give it a try. If all turns out well, I'll put up a couple of pics.
 
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Sanding sealer is a must for poplar no matter what the coloring process. It does blotch and shade, the SS will help.
 
Fred makes a good point about sanding sealer. However, it probably won't be necessary for this project. Since you are trying to get it totally black, and once the poplar is dyed it will be very dark from the black dye, it should be a uniform color. You will likely be very surprised and impressed at the depth provided by the water soluble aniline dyes. Splotching ususally occurs when you are staining or dyeing the wood lighter colors, like reds or browns, and there is contrast between the light and dark areas. If you are trying to get it totally black, there is no contrast, and while it may technically splotch, because it's all one uniform color, it will not really be visible, as it will all look "black."

HomeBru had a good explanation of sanding sealer in post #5, and he is very correct in his explanation of it. I think I would follow his recommendation of trying the dye out on scrap, first, without sanding sealer. You will likely find that it gets jet black. As for sanding sealer, you can use whatever finish you plan on using for the topcoat. Just wait for the water dye to dry completely, (you can speed it along with a hair dryer) and then brush, spray, or wipe on a thin coat of your finish. This will let you know how it's going to look when you start topcoating the wood. Just out of curiosity what are you planning for the finish?

Sam
 
Forgot about how fuzzy poplar can get. A sanding sealer will help with that as well. You apply the sealer before the dye, it helps control the rate of absorption. Going for black you might not need it, but you may end up still seeing the varied absorption as variances in luster, some may look semi-gloss, some may look flat. For something as important as a presentation box, I'd experiment on scraps unti I got what I liked.
 
I would suggest you dye the wood first, than cut out your pattern and add your inlay.

Larry
Tinkerer
 
Willie71 said:
I use 0000 steel wool for the fuzz.
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Problem with using steel wool for this is that very fine micro-fibers of the steel wool can embed themselves in the wood and, over time, cause dark spots from rusting. If sealed over afterwards, this isn't much of an issue. I've seen several nice wooden gunstocks that were blemished by little rusty dots.

I made this box from poplar and dyed it with thinned out Fiebing's blue leather dye. Turned out really nice after a few coats of Formby's Tung Oil finish.


 
GrizzlyBear said:
Problem with using steel wool for this is that very fine micro-fibers of the steel wool can embed themselves in the wood and, over time, cause dark spots from rusting. If sealed over afterwards, this isn't much of an issue. I've seen several nice wooden gunstocks that were blemished by little rusty dots.
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This is very true, and I meant to mention this earlier. This is especially problematic if you use a waterborne finsh. Additionally, steel wool is slightly oily, so not much of an issue for an oil or wax finish, but if you use a lacquer or waterborne finish, you can have issues. Good point, GrizzlyBear.

And nice work on the box and knife. Most leather dyes are alcohol soluble aniline dyes, of good quality. They usually work very well on most anything you want to dye.

Sam :thumbup:
 
Carbon1 said:
They usually work very well on most anything you want to dye.

Sam :thumbup:
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And many things you DON'T want dyed...lol. If I'm using Saddle Tan and don't want to screw with gloves, I look like I've been smoking a carton a day for the past 10 years.

:) Thanks for the kind words too.
 
That looks really cool GrizzlyBear.

Well i tried a test run tonight with mixed results. The dye worked great, left the wood a great dark shade, however it didn't penetrate as deeply as I had hoped it would. when I started to sand it with 220 the coloring started to come out.
 
Langadune said:
That looks really cool GrizzlyBear.

Well i tried a test run tonight with mixed results. The dye worked great, left the wood a great dark shade, however it didn't penetrate as deeply as I had hoped it would. when I started to sand it with 220 the coloring started to come out.
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That's a good start. Water dyes penetrate the deepest of just about any dye out there, because the water dries so slowly, it has longer to soak in. Do you mean that you sanded the bare wood after you applied the dye? If so, the dye will always sand out. You will have to seal it with a finish before you can sand anymore. But at this point, the wood should be sanded as far as necessary. If you tell me what you've got to work with, or what type of finish you plan on using, I can probably walk you through the finishing steps.

Sam :thumbup:
 
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