annealing questions.

C

Charles Dean

Joined
Feb 3, 2001
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I plan to make a bowie once my steel comes in. I do have a couple questions though. I plan to do all work by hand with a file, so I want to anneal the blade to make it easier to remove material, my question is how do I anneal? Do I heat until non magnetic and let it cool by covering it in sand? Also if I anneal do I need do I need to normalize afterward or is all the stress allready removed? My last question is how should I temper them in my oven? Thanks a lot guys.
 
Charles......
You left out the most important part.....what type of steel are you dealing with?
 
Are you ordering a blade blank that is pre ground and everything and plan on modifying it? Or are you starting with raw steel? Generally, raw steel in bars has already been anealed, at least form the places I've bought from.
 
unless you buy scrap, It should already be anealed. test it with a file to be sure.

in general an anealing cycle for steel is;
heat to nonmagnetic plus,
hold at that heat 5 minits
bury in sand(ash, vermikulite, etc) and allow to cool slow
(this can vary depending on the steel)

my normalizing cycle, looks just like my anealing cycle, I may run it twice, just to make sure, but I'll call it one or the other.(i won't run both)

the problem is all your questions are steel specific,

what are you using?
 
Charles,
Send me an email. We need to get together since you live so close and I'll try to show you everything I know which isn't much. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes! :)

C Wilkins
 
Thanks Craig. Ill try to email later. Right now its on the fritz. I will use 5160 barstock for this project and will forge it to shape then finish with a file. So I think it doesnt really matter what state its in when I get it because it will be ruined by the forging process. I know for sure that I want to anneal it so it will be easier but after I anneal should I normalize it or is it OK to heat treat? And let me get this straight first, to anneal I heat till non magnetic plus, keep at that heat for five minutes, then barry in sand till cool to touch. Correct? Then to normalize heat to nonmagnetic then let to air cool till cool enough to touch. Hope I'm right.
 
Charles,
What I have seen is to use hardwood ashes (easy to get in our area, just use the mesquite ashes after you smoke a brisket) or vermiculite from a nursery such as Houston Garden Center or Teas. Build yourself a box about 8"X8"X24". Make sure it has a lid. Place the ashes or vermiculite in it. For small pieces, heat up a "chunk of iron" and place it in the box before you place in the smaller pieces. Doing this will allow it to cool more slowly. Fairly large blades may not need this or if you are doing "quite a few". Let it cool at least overnight. This should make the steel pretty soft. I am new to forging myself, but this will work.

C Wilkins
 
Charles

You will probably get a lot of different answers to your question because we all do things different, but heres how I do it and I have real good success. After I forge, I normalize 4 times, the first 3 times I heat to non-magnetic and immediately remove it from the heat and let it air cool until all color is gone(about 2-3minutes) then the 4th time heat to non-magnetic,remove immediately and cover in a bucket of wood ashes until cool. After I grind to approx. finished shape I heat slowly the first time to non-magnetic and edge quench into ATF pre-heated to 140-160 degrees. Hold the edge in the quench until the blade quits bubbling, then submerge the whole blade until it has cooled to the same temp as your quench. If you want to triple quench, just repeat the quench 2 more times (be ready for a quench fire, have aboard or something to lay over your quench container to smother)
This process has really worked good for me,the steel is easy to drill and grind and I never get any warpage when quenching.;)

I hope this helps
Bill
 
The temp to normalize is higher than nonmagnetic. Heat the steel to beyond magnetic and let it cool to black. Do this 3 times. the grain should now be small again and refined. To anneal I place the steel in the even heat oven and heat to 1320 degrees and hold for 30 minutes. Take it out any time after 30 minutes and it is soft as butter.
 
Bruce

Thanks for correcting me, approx normalizing temp is 1620, and approx non-magnetic temp is 1420 with a top annealing temp of approx 1500 for 5160. I sure hope I didn't mess anyone up.Sorry :eek:
 
Thanks for all the help guys. But do I need to normalize after annealing or is it pretty safe? Thanks Again.
 
Charles, Normalize it after forging and then anneal it. Post a picture after it finished.
 
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