-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Anodizer ?
- Thread starter heatride
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2001
- Messages
- 8,474
GLEN
go here and make one..
http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html:)
I wouldn't drink
a lot of it
(edited because I was thinking of eching )
I believe they use TSP for one of the agents
go here and make one..
http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html:)
I wouldn't drink
a lot of it
(edited because I was thinking of eching )
I believe they use TSP for one of the agents
I sell chemistry to platters and anodizers and this is the deal.
normal anodize:
etch aluminum with caustic
rinse rinse
deoxidize the al with strong acid can be sulfuric blend
rinse rinse
then in a bath of 14% sulfuric with some dissolved aluminum you need to run current through the part so some kind of rectifier is needed.
14-28 amp/sq/ft.
Then hot water seal or color dye then chemical seal.
Could someone do this at home yes but why? Find a local plater and see what he would charge for a minimum. Most will do black or clear some will get into bronze and red colors. There are metal finishing sites on the web that have more details.
Joe
normal anodize:
etch aluminum with caustic
rinse rinse
deoxidize the al with strong acid can be sulfuric blend
rinse rinse
then in a bath of 14% sulfuric with some dissolved aluminum you need to run current through the part so some kind of rectifier is needed.
14-28 amp/sq/ft.
Then hot water seal or color dye then chemical seal.
Could someone do this at home yes but why? Find a local plater and see what he would charge for a minimum. Most will do black or clear some will get into bronze and red colors. There are metal finishing sites on the web that have more details.
Joe
fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
Trisodium phosphate is a strongly basic compound. It is the cleaning agent sold for washing walls prior to painting. It will clean skin very nicely by eating the outside flesh off, with prolonged exposure. 
Don't eat it, get it in your eyes, and wash off skin relatively quickly if you get it on you, and it'll be fine to work with. Treat it about like you would Draino or Liquid Plumber.
You can make an anodizer easily, there are numerous plans available on various websites. It's really nothing more than the wetbath and a variable power supply.
Gloves and eye protection would be wise if you want laboratory-style safety. Then just don't stick yer finger in the bath with the juice on.
Don't eat it, get it in your eyes, and wash off skin relatively quickly if you get it on you, and it'll be fine to work with. Treat it about like you would Draino or Liquid Plumber.You can make an anodizer easily, there are numerous plans available on various websites. It's really nothing more than the wetbath and a variable power supply.
Gloves and eye protection would be wise if you want laboratory-style safety. Then just don't stick yer finger in the bath with the juice on.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2001
- Messages
- 8,474
Mike
you're trying to scare us aren't you,,remember
we are knife makers
we grind our fingers off,
burn holes in owe selves, stab and cut hands and fingers,
just to see if that thing is sharp or not,
must I go on what's a little skin falling off
we use raid for fly dope
you're trying to scare us aren't you,,remember
we are knife makers
we grind our fingers off,
burn holes in owe selves, stab and cut hands and fingers,
just to see if that thing is sharp or not,
must I go on
what's a little skin falling off we use raid for fly dope
Fitzo,
You are correct about TSP the company I work for originated its use as a cleaner during WWI. It will clean the Aluminum and even give a slight etch at elevated temps but I guess we need to know the end use for the Anodized part. If the part is to be flat dull aluminum you can probably get that without too much trouble. I even willing to bet you get a soft thin coating also. If you looking for black anodoze then you need a dye and sealer to do it right.
I go back to why bother? I think the time is better spent on finding a good anodizer you can work with and is willing to work with you. They can often can plate and powder coat. Now powder coating is easy if you have the euiptment. I do it in the lab on small parts all the time. Use epoxy and other outdoor powders.
Joe
You are correct about TSP the company I work for originated its use as a cleaner during WWI. It will clean the Aluminum and even give a slight etch at elevated temps but I guess we need to know the end use for the Anodized part. If the part is to be flat dull aluminum you can probably get that without too much trouble. I even willing to bet you get a soft thin coating also. If you looking for black anodoze then you need a dye and sealer to do it right.
I go back to why bother? I think the time is better spent on finding a good anodizer you can work with and is willing to work with you. They can often can plate and powder coat. Now powder coating is easy if you have the euiptment. I do it in the lab on small parts all the time. Use epoxy and other outdoor powders.
Joe
fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
Nah, not trying to scare anyone, Dan! I'm just like everyone else: learn the hazards and then pretty much ignore them! But, Glen asked, so I figure I'd let him make "informed decisions", then!
As you pretty much said, we are an inherently unsafe bunch. I have so many grinder scars they could draw a small roadmap. I especially like the ones from the old Microfinishing belts, that nasty Mylar edge that slices and leaves a nice black scar from the embedded metal. Heck, those were cool, they usually hardly even bled! You could keep on working and not call for the little lady to come cut some butterflies from the adhesive tape. Ever put acetone on a nasty cut to stop the bleeding enough to tape it up? Yowee, I say!
My latest was a few weeks back, trying to be cheap; gas welding, trying to get that last bit of weld out of a too-short rod, I felt some heat. Turned out the torch was bouncing off the metal and hitting my glove. The heat the glove absorbed was sufficient to burn all the way through the skin, deep. When the blister broke, it was more than an 1/8" deep into the skin. Took the whole backside of my ring finger off.
Trisodium phosphate isn't really dangerous, obviously, but it does react with protein (skin) to make soap. If I remember right it's called saponification. Sure makes for a clean spot on yer arm or whatever. A dose in the eye can trash corneal tissue, so I thought it worth the mention.
Fuji --- Most of the folks anodizing things are doing titanium parts. Some even do "pen anodizing" to "paint" the colors on Ti. Mike Walker's wife, pardon me forgetting her name, pioneered the technique for knife use back in the 80's. Way cool technique.
But, Glen asked, so I figure I'd let him make "informed decisions", then!As you pretty much said, we are an inherently unsafe bunch. I have so many grinder scars they could draw a small roadmap. I especially like the ones from the old Microfinishing belts, that nasty Mylar edge that slices and leaves a nice black scar from the embedded metal. Heck, those were cool, they usually hardly even bled!
You could keep on working and not call for the little lady to come cut some butterflies from the adhesive tape. Ever put acetone on a nasty cut to stop the bleeding enough to tape it up? Yowee, I say!My latest was a few weeks back, trying to be cheap; gas welding, trying to get that last bit of weld out of a too-short rod, I felt some heat. Turned out the torch was bouncing off the metal and hitting my glove. The heat the glove absorbed was sufficient to burn all the way through the skin, deep. When the blister broke, it was more than an 1/8" deep into the skin. Took the whole backside of my ring finger off.
Trisodium phosphate isn't really dangerous, obviously, but it does react with protein (skin) to make soap. If I remember right it's called saponification. Sure makes for a clean spot on yer arm or whatever.
A dose in the eye can trash corneal tissue, so I thought it worth the mention. Fuji --- Most of the folks anodizing things are doing titanium parts. Some even do "pen anodizing" to "paint" the colors on Ti. Mike Walker's wife, pardon me forgetting her name, pioneered the technique for knife use back in the 80's. Way cool technique.
Most production anodizers are doing it on Aluminum. Since I don't know about titanium anodizing can't comment. But I'll ask around. Yes the TSP bonds with the fat in your skin to make soap. If you get chlorine on your skin you also defat it and form a simple soap. To make the real stuff you need caustic and fat.
I can see the jokes coming with that one.
Joe
I can see the jokes coming with that one.
Joe
Hi,
Gary Riner, griner@esper.com ,
the Fibermascus guy had a few Variacs panel mounted with meters that were pulled out of something. $45 as I recall. Should be simple matter to add a heat sink mountable rectifier to it and some leads.
Enjoy, Ken
Gary Riner, griner@esper.com ,
the Fibermascus guy had a few Variacs panel mounted with meters that were pulled out of something. $45 as I recall. Should be simple matter to add a heat sink mountable rectifier to it and some leads.
Enjoy, Ken
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
- Messages
- 422
Thanks for the information folks and yes fitzo it's for titanium .I feel better after reading your post. I cant even spell chemistrry much less know if this stuff is
bad for you. I think I read were about 24 volts gives you a blue color I dunno will read up on this and get more information.
bad for you. I think I read were about 24 volts gives you a blue color I dunno will read up on this and get more information.
I think Ti is deoxed in HF acid? I'll find out for certain if so you need to be very careful. HF is goes after the calcium in the body and causes serious chemical burns. The calcium part is very dangerous since it can disrupt the electrical current that runs your heart! A German worker died last year for getting what amounts to 1 half pint on his skin. He had a heart condition. Even so the burns would have been terrible. Not trying to scare you just need to know what you have and respect it. Rubber apron goggles boots good ventilation is needed.
Joe
Joe
fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
Joe,
I think there is no need for an HF (hydrofluoric acid) wash on these small parts. They're freshly sanded and clean.
I agree with you completely about HF. It is a very hazardous chemical. For those that don't know, hydrofluoric acid is used to etch glass, amongst other things. If contact is made with skin and not washed off and neutralized IMMEDIATELY, it will eat into the skin sometimes to the bone, even after it is washed off. Still you will lose surface skin, it absorbs that fast. It is very toxic. HF burns are usually dealt with by removing the affected skin, what's left after the acid continues to burn in for a number of days. Breathing the vapors results in pulmonary edema >>>>>> death.
This is a chemical I would recommend someone without the proper training stay away from. It is very hazardous and dangerous.
Good point, Joe. Thanks. This one is nasty enough I think it's worth trying to scare people away from...apologies to Dan.
I think there is no need for an HF (hydrofluoric acid) wash on these small parts. They're freshly sanded and clean.
I agree with you completely about HF. It is a very hazardous chemical. For those that don't know, hydrofluoric acid is used to etch glass, amongst other things. If contact is made with skin and not washed off and neutralized IMMEDIATELY, it will eat into the skin sometimes to the bone, even after it is washed off. Still you will lose surface skin, it absorbs that fast. It is very toxic. HF burns are usually dealt with by removing the affected skin, what's left after the acid continues to burn in for a number of days. Breathing the vapors results in pulmonary edema >>>>>> death.
This is a chemical I would recommend someone without the proper training stay away from. It is very hazardous and dangerous.
Good point, Joe. Thanks. This one is nasty enough I think it's worth trying to scare people away from...apologies to Dan.
fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
just jokin' back....
Seriously, though.....I know we all want to be safe enough to keep it to barked knuckles and such, and those who've got years in a knifeshop and all it's potential problems try to help along those who are new to the hazards. After 30 years in labs, I have a healthy respect for chemicals but wouldn't hesitate to use most any of em. HF scares me, though. Most of us have seen the necrosis occurs from snakebite or Brown Recluse bite. HF does about the same thing. Creepy, stuff that can feel like a sunburn, but rot yer skin off, bone deep. Saw a foto once, in safety training, of a guy who spilled some on his pants and didn't wash it off for all of 15 minutes. He lost most of his thigh muscle.
That's the only reason I jumped on this when someone mentioned HF.
I hope I don't offend anyone, as that's my furthest intent. Chemistry was my area of expertise, and I try to share when a chem question comes up, especially about the safety. The forums are so cool in that respect, a nearly instant huge source of help compared to having to learn it all the hard way like so many here did.
Seriously, though.....I know we all want to be safe enough to keep it to barked knuckles and such, and those who've got years in a knifeshop and all it's potential problems try to help along those who are new to the hazards. After 30 years in labs, I have a healthy respect for chemicals but wouldn't hesitate to use most any of em. HF scares me, though. Most of us have seen the necrosis occurs from snakebite or Brown Recluse bite. HF does about the same thing. Creepy, stuff that can feel like a sunburn, but rot yer skin off, bone deep. Saw a foto once, in safety training, of a guy who spilled some on his pants and didn't wash it off for all of 15 minutes. He lost most of his thigh muscle.
That's the only reason I jumped on this when someone mentioned HF.
I hope I don't offend anyone, as that's my furthest intent. Chemistry was my area of expertise, and I try to share when a chem question comes up, especially about the safety. The forums are so cool in that respect, a nearly instant huge source of help compared to having to learn it all the hard way like so many here did.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2001
- Messages
- 8,474
you got to love it the realm of info that is...
That and the air borne stuff that gets you later gets me
slow death
you know.......
if you want to contribute
type up some of the common stuff makers are using and the do's don'ts and what it's and I'll
post them on the Knife makers help site. I'm sure it will get used..
http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html
you feel like you've been roped now don't ya
the realm of info that is...That and the air borne stuff that gets you later gets me
slow death
you know.......
if you want to contribute
type up some of the common stuff makers are using and the do's don'ts and what it's and I'll
post them on the Knife makers help site. I'm sure it will get used..
http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html
you feel like you've been roped now don't ya
- Joined
- Feb 15, 1999
- Messages
- 11,566
Mike, you should try washing your face and hair with it.
fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
If I wipe the bbq sauce and grease off my face then the ugly shows worse, George. As for the hair, that's my source of substitue Ren-wax. Bet you didn't know that shop tip, didya now? 
Thank you though, my dear scanna, blicka torta Portugese reprobate Mr. Biker-scum friend. I truly appreciate the input. If we lived closer, I'd write it down, cuz I know exactly where I'd wanna store the info, notebook and all. he-he-he.....
Dan, you are SO right, that dust is definitely the worst thing in the shop IMO, and it is insidious. I have emphysema and COPD and spend half the day or so on oxygen. I had to invest big bucks in a supplied air visor because grinding anything was bothering me so bad. I can't even wear a "breathe-through" respirator anymore, it's too hard to draw air through. Truly, if there was one thing I would stress to new makers, or woodworkers, it would be to make sure and wear a cartridge respirator from Day 1, and make sure it fits right to be effective. It makes little sense to suffer this crap if all it'd take was making sure to wear a respirator.
As for the hair, that's my source of substitue Ren-wax. Bet you didn't know that shop tip, didya now? Thank you though, my dear scanna, blicka torta Portugese reprobate Mr. Biker-scum friend.
I truly appreciate the input. If we lived closer, I'd write it down, cuz I know exactly where I'd wanna store the info, notebook and all. he-he-he.....Dan, you are SO right, that dust is definitely the worst thing in the shop IMO, and it is insidious. I have emphysema and COPD and spend half the day or so on oxygen. I had to invest big bucks in a supplied air visor because grinding anything was bothering me so bad. I can't even wear a "breathe-through" respirator anymore, it's too hard to draw air through. Truly, if there was one thing I would stress to new makers, or woodworkers, it would be to make sure and wear a cartridge respirator from Day 1, and make sure it fits right to be effective. It makes little sense to suffer this crap if all it'd take was making sure to wear a respirator.