another 2-nighter: 2 types of shelter used.

[JV3]

i saw the forecast for a significant snow storm for last friday night into saturday so i took off last friday for a last minute 2-nighter...sweetness, some white stuff to start the weekend right.

for the first night (when the snow storm came) i decided to build a mors kochanski super shelter - it turns out i needed to follow his design exactly (a raised sleeping platform 12" or so off the ground being the major one i didn't follow) otherwise it wouldn't work as well...more on that later. also, i ditched the thermarest inflatable that deflated on my previous 2-nighter and opted to go with the good ol' foam one.

before someone says something, i took all the frame materials from snapped trees like this one (tons of them in our area from the freak october snow storm we had). you can see the fatmax saw sitting on top one of the branches on the left. i didn't cut down any living trees.

i think it took me around 5 hours to construct that shelter from scratch with the exception of the existing main ridge line from my previous 2-nighter. it was already way cold and i spent quite a bit of time resting throughout to let my hands warm back up since i had to use bare hands to tie the sisal cordage (my winter gloves are too thick to have enough fine finger control). lesson learned - use zip ties. anyway, it was getting dark and time to cook my dinner.

i used my a week old ontario 12" cutlass machete's "choil" area to strike the firesteel. worked really well!

that night's low was 15 deg f with a 8-10 mph wind so i had high hopes for the super shelter working well.

after a few hours, the shelter's interior was only about 10-15 deg or so warmer than outside. that was my first hint that something wasn't quite right so i decided to go all out and tossed a telephone pole-sized log on the camp fire

 

[JV3]

saturday morning...the temp was definitely nowhere near what i hoped for. the interior only got up to just above freezing (35 or so) when it was 15 outside and i used up several massive logs to keep the camp fire burning healthy all night. normally, the camp fire is already pretty much dead by the time i go to bed so i wasted a lot of stashed wood for one night in the pic below, the water was liquid in the bottle but when i poured it out ice instantly formed.

this was the plastic i used and it was pretty thick actually! i think i could've gone with the cheaper 2 mil or even 1 mil and it still would've withstood the wind just fine without tearing. the sisal cordage was a lot tougher than the usual twine i normally use for bundling newspaper for recycling too...really good cordage for really cheap.

another mistake i made was the shelter being too big i think. i used a bushcraftusa 10'x10' on a previous trip and i instinctively followed the same footprint with this one. funny thing is i sold that tarp before this trip since it was too big for me (opted to go with their 5'x7' multicam instead)...and yet i made this one the same size...go figure!

the toys i brought for testing...all of them are less than 2 weeks old except the saw and the cs kukri (i've had it for almost a year but this was the first time i brought it hiking with me).

first peak outside...sweetness!

the shelter held up just fine with 6" of snow.

the long fire burned completely.

there's a big pile of snow on the shelter's back.

that gorilla tape is awesome stuff! not a single piece peeled off despite my worries that i didn't use enough given the low temp (brought only 1 roll and i had to conserve it). i actually tried to peel one piece off but it's still sticky that it will tear off the plastic before it will let go...good stuff.

i started wandering around and this was the only remotely usable natural shelter i saw. spending the night on there will be rough for the unprepared!

my kind of hiking weather! i was born and raised in the philippines so i have no idea where i got the love of cold weather...i just like winter more than any other season.

serene but potentially deadly for the careless...that snow is hiding a fast stream underneath.

this is what that same spot looked like a few weeks ago.

brought two of these water jugs - i'm not risking falling into that stream more than once in this trip.

my shelter (dead center at the top of that hill) is now well camo'd.

mother nature can be kind at times too - conveniently rolled up birch bark away from the snow.

on the way back to my shelter i saw these two bugs. huh, i thought they'd be gone by now...no idea what they are. apologies for the crappy cell pics.

 

[JV3]

haven't decided yet which of these two i like better.

i'm getting lazy. i haven't made any feathersticks to start my camp fire in a long time, preferring instead to just collect enough small twigs.

covered up the fire pit twigs with my o.p.s.e.c. multicam poncho - another new piece of gear i brought to test. notice at just 10' away or so it's already blending in well.

a few more feet away and the multicam poncho completely blends in. it blends in a lot better than coyote brown in fact...more on that later.

my favorite tinder.

ducked inside the shelter to get out of the wind and test (battle creek knives) rob's necker that he gave me. he said he's betting i can't break it...game on!

not sure what wood this is.

...all i know is it's definitely not a soft wood (but it's not nearly as hard as the abundant iron wood we have here).

whoops...it tried to bite off more than it can chew and it got stuck.

i'm not a hockey mask kinda guy so i carved a wedge to help it along.

straight through a small knot.

no chips or rolls...for the record i don't normally abuse my knives especially ones this small but rob gave me this one to test hard so i did.

i did a one-stick fire type splitting and it did well.

definitely lost it's shaving sharpness after that but still sharp enough to easily shave & curl birch bark.

beech leaves mixed in with the birch bark scrapings.

in my experience, beech leaves almost always catches fire first before birch bark scrapings.

this view sure beats staying in a 5-star hotel anyday!

fridge, water source & dish washer...gotta love snow!

 

[JV3]

i brought a coyote brown tarp and a multicam poncho with me since i wanted to see for myself which color scheme blended the best in my own neck of the woods. my black backpack right between the two clearly sticks out like a sore thumb in the woods.

from 20 yds or so away multicam is already pulling ahead.

multicam consistently looks like a rock whereas coyote brown looks off in my environment...it's "too clean". even the brown trees have hints of black in their bark.

the worst spot to hide - wide open in the middle of a snow field.

...i'm sold on multicam if i want a woods neutral clothing.

anyway, time to process some more wood. unless i'm taking down a dead standing tree, i prefer a saw now.

every night when the wind blows this branch makes those creaking noises - kinda like that door opening sound in horror movies

shelter #2 for saturday night - o.p.s.e.c. multicam poncho, just a week old. this spot (only about 50 yds from my first shelter) was directly against the wind so i pitched it as low as i can (the highest point was only knee high) and i piled snow on the side facing the wind for more insulation.

this is my first poncho and the reason i picked this one over a usgi one was because it has a fire retardant coating and the back flap can be extended an extra 14" giving me extra protection when used as a shelter.

spoolup already took some nice pics so i'm going to re-use it here. we have a lot in common when it comes to gear choices so when a google search for ponchos turned up his review of this poncho, i knew my search for a poncho was over.

i wrapped the sleeping pad & bag like a burrito and folded it in half to make it easier to push inside the shelter.

test fit...a little tight but i was too lazy to raise it up.

i didn't see this in any of the reviews i read...right off the bat a problem was staring me in the face - literally 8" away from my nose. i told you i pitched it really low! this is the female side of the snap button for the extended tail. for snow it's not a problem but rain can easily leak through it. looking at it now i can easily seal the outside with heavy duty epoxy or jb weld and it won't interfere with the button's function.

all the cordage pulled tied and the shelter is ready. by this point i was thinking it's going to be a rough night! no fire, no reflector blanket, and i'm in direct path of the main wind. but i already had a cold night with the failed super shelter so i figured i don't have anything to lose. plus, if this is going to be my emergency shelter for day hikes i have to test it. i kept telling myself, "man up...don't be a sissy!"

laid the coyote brown tarp on top for comparison - another negative is that shine. people with flashlights looking for you will give your position away.

anyway, back to camp for dinner.

...life is good!

 

[JV3]

i'm a woods ninja!

sunday morning...surprisingly, even though it was colder (low of 14 deg f compared to 15 deg f saturday night) i actually felt warmer in that poncho shelter than the super shelter! only thing i didn't like was because it was pitched so low it was hard to get in and out so in the middle of the night when i had to pee i just ended up rolling over to one side and pee'd laying on my right side i covered up the yellow snow prior to taking this pic so as not to offend the leave no trace crowd

50 or so yds away my shelter looks just like any other log spread all over here.

how i set up my poncho shelter...thanks to rescueriley, the king of poncho shelters, for teaching me these things!

the male end of the rear flap. only complaint the reviewers had was there's no grommet or tab here.

the other end i just used a piece of twig. i was going to use one m&m and call it "survival m&m" but i figured it's not a good idea because someone very young here who might be reading will follow suit and get into trouble with a bear because of it.

no damage.

worked just fine but i think i'll sew a paracord loop on both ends later...just another thing i don't have to fuss with in a real emergency.

just some light frosting overnight.

went back to the super shelter to cook breakfast and saw this interesting pattern!

because the poncho shelter was so tight i kept rubbing against it every time i tossed and turned during the night. the kifaru woobie's shell held up fine against the condensation - the ice just flaked right off.

my north face sleeping bag absorbed the moisture though.

sleeping bags should be water proof and not need another outer layer for protection. oh well. as i get more experienced, i learn more what to look for when shopping for gear.

 

[JV3]

my compass developed a bubble overnight. this isn't a cheap replica - i got it from countycomm. supposedly a training compass for the military. is it garbage? the bubble is gone now though.

i'm starting to really like the kukri...i like how lightweight it is and the forward balance makes it very nimble in the hand.

another new knife - a mora c-223 that jnieporte posted about a few days ago. thanks, man! what an awesome find...saved me from buying a bk-7 or esee-6 and inevitably selling it for a loss again...i'm really starting to favor lightweight, nimble knives over over-built ones.

patina from the factory.

it's incredibly lightweight so chopping thicker branches will require a little finesse...bent the twig back, chop, bent it some more and a 2nd chop got the job done.

it's a very thin knife and i read someone posted that the edge rolled on him...time to see for myself.

no problems here. as a note, it's not a true scandi grind. after closer inspection i can easily see a secondary bevel with just my bare eyes.

covered my pack with the multicam poncho...even at such close range, it blends in really well.

getting ready to leave so i stashed my smaller fire wood inside the shelter. i put too much work into it so i'm not tearing it down so soon. i'll keep coming back to this spot anyway due to the abundance of firewood so might as well use it some more.

all packed and ready to go.

in keeping with my belief of always testing new gear (no safe queens here...even my first aid kit was tested recently ) i decided to walk out of there wearing the poncho the whole time. hard to take a pic of it but it covered up my pack well and the fabric didn't really hinder me too much when walking through the brush and thorns...i felt like obi-wan the whole time

looking back at my foot prints...i did a little e&e practice just to see how well i can hide my track in the snow for the heck of it since i surf the esee forum frequently too and they sometimes hold contests like this. in short, i did a lot of zig zags, doubling back, j-turns, and never stepping on logs (foot prints on them can be seen from much farther away than the ground) but instead walking around them.

i walked around logs like this. someone following my tracks will hopefully get confused which direction did i really go.

my camp site and main work environment was up on that hill somewhere so when walking out i mainly stayed at the base of the hills.

the grass (in this case trees) really is greener on the other side.

...anyway, that was my adventure in the snow.

 

[grunt soldier]

wow as always sir. great pics and descriptions of everything. that was a pretty damn elaborate shelter you built there.

 

[sicily02]

That was very cool, Loved the pics even with the snow lol. Great job.
Your pictures really made your thread a great one.
Interesting to see the bugs at this time of year and with the temps being as low as you say it got.
Wow you really used some big chunks of wood. You would think that would have heated your shelter up.
I am not sure what to think of the term super shelter. I have made a dug out in snow and then put up plastic as a wind break
and covering for my snow dug out and while the sun is out is was plenty warm in my snow dug out but once the sun when down it was chilly with out some type of heat in there with me IE candles and my little stove brewing up hot coco.
I made a vent hole and was good to go.

Sat back and enjoyed the night sounds sipping coco snug as a bug.

again Great job,


Bryan

 

[fmajor007]

WOW JV3 - great job bud! Love the pics and descriptions - fantastic.

I'm really interested in hearing which you preferred - the CS Kuk or the Ontario 12" machete. So many folks have an opinion, it will be good for you to determine yours using actual experiences to support your reasons.

From one winter fanactic to another - long live Winter!!! A secret is have a nice fire - keep it stoked and stay as dry as possible!!!

Great shelter BTW - easy to see you put alot of work into it.

Maybe on your next outing, make the fire closer to your shelter, use long (~your body-length) logs (and that are nice and thick!) for the over-night. That should get you 1) closer to the heat source (while being careful not to be too close) 2) a greater surface-area fire with which to feel all that heat.

As to the bugs... i've seen those beetles also, but have no idea what they're called. They survive well though...

 

[WILLIAM.M]

Very Cool

Please keep these types of posts--COMING!!!!!

Dr.Bill

 

[upnorth]

Very cool ! I'm too much of a limp wrist to sleep in the snow so hats off to those that do. Maybe I'll give it a whirl one day. Man it sure snowed on you during that pic sequence. I was out yesterday and found some new bunny dens with active trails. Can't put up snares right now because of a work schedule conflict. But will likely go rabbit fishing in a few days. Nice pics. :thumbup:

 

[sm-100]

JV3 - this is a crazy cool post, I'm really enjoying it.

 

[Shotgun]

Very cool thread. I wonder if you made the shelter 1/3 the size if it would perform better. Effectively reducing the volume you have to heat.

 

[foxx]

Nice outing, I love to see all the pics. Without them, I'd have to use my imagination I haven't been winter camping in years, last time I did it was in 3' of snow.
A big shelter is much harder to heat, at least lower your height. You can cover your wood with plastic, but outside the shelter? An emergency blanket, hanging inside your shelter, on the back wall would help, and they are so light.

I do like the shelter, but isn't all the plastic sort of heavy? I assume you'll use the same frame in the future, and take some more plastic? I guess I've always just taken my bivy sack, it's so light, and I can have it up in 5 minutes. Then again, I don't really have a hang out shelter either. If I went winter camping, I'd have to construct something as well.

I have that 12" Ontario Cutlass. No matter how I sanded that handle, it sucked. I made some out of stabilized hickory. So far, they are much better than the original. I still think I can refine them more. At some point, I want to do some micarta for an Ontario, and I think I want a thicker version of what Bark River has done.
This pic has my Ontario 12" next to the 14" version by Bark River.

 

[carspidey]

where is this at?

i went backpacking this weekend in the San Gorgonio Wilderness in SoCal and fires are a no no there... i'd like to find a place like this in the area where i live...

 

[JV3]

wow as always sir. great pics and descriptions of everything. that was a pretty damn elaborate shelter you built there.

thanks! yeah, just checking off items from my woods to-try list. i've done everything i wanted to try i think except learn friction fire - that's my main goal for this year aside from an overnighter at least once a month to experience the various temps.

That was very cool, Loved the pics even with the snow lol. Great job.
Your pictures really made your thread a great one.
Interesting to see the bugs at this time of year and with the temps being as low as you say it got.
Wow you really used some big chunks of wood. You would think that would have heated your shelter up.
I am not sure what to think of the term super shelter. I have made a dug out in snow and then put up plastic as a wind break
and covering for my snow dug out and while the sun is out is was plenty warm in my snow dug out but once the sun when down it was chilly with out some type of heat in there with me IE candles and my little stove brewing up hot coco.
I made a vent hole and was good to go.

Sat back and enjoyed the night sounds sipping coco snug as a bug.

again Great job,


Bryan

thanks, bryan! the shelter indeed was too big. another was that i should've covered the back wall with plastic too to hold in the heat. the rocks acted like giant heat sink, robbing the shelter of it. i touched them with my bare hand and it was definitely a lot colder than the bare ground.

WOW JV3 - great job bud! Love the pics and descriptions - fantastic.

I'm really interested in hearing which you preferred - the CS Kuk or the Ontario 12" machete. So many folks have an opinion, it will be good for you to determine yours using actual experiences to support your reasons.

From one winter fanactic to another - long live Winter!!! A secret is have a nice fire - keep it stoked and stay as dry as possible!!!

Great shelter BTW - easy to see you put alot of work into it.

Maybe on your next outing, make the fire closer to your shelter, use long (~your body-length) logs (and that are nice and thick!) for the over-night. That should get you 1) closer to the heat source (while being careful not to be too close) 2) a greater surface-area fire with which to feel all that heat.

As to the bugs... i've seen those beetles also, but have no idea what they're called. They survive well though...

thanks! as of now i favor the kukri over the ontario. the ontario is easier to sharpen but the kukri's curved spine keeps my wrist straight on impact, reducing stress. in my sig i did a review of the becker patrol machete and i compared it to the esee junglas (they all have curved spines and handle). that downward slope really does work in my experience.

as for the shelter, i think i'm done experimenting with it. the main component is a big fire so either way i either lug a heavy sleeping bag out there or spend hours gathering large wood...work now or work later, either way i lose. i think i'd rather carry the weight and conserve the wood for future trips. it was a fun experiment though!

Very Cool

Please keep these types of posts--COMING!!!!!

Dr.Bill

thanks, dr. bill! my main goal for this year is at least an overnighter a month so there'll be more of these posts

Very cool ! I'm too much of a limp wrist to sleep in the snow so hats off to those that do. Maybe I'll give it a whirl one day. Man it sure snowed on you during that pic sequence. I was out yesterday and found some new bunny dens with active trails. Can't put up snares right now because of a work schedule conflict. But will likely go rabbit fishing in a few days. Nice pics. :thumbup:

it was very cool indeed as for winter camping, my advice is start in the fall and do it gradually as the temps drop...or just bring booze and temp fate that you'll wake up the next day don't skimp on gloves and quality wool socks (i always bring at least 1 pair per day).

JV3 - this is a crazy cool post, I'm really enjoying it.

thanks!

Very cool thread. I wonder if you made the shelter 1/3 the size if it would perform better. Effectively reducing the volume you have to heat.

thanks! yup, my un-heated, bare bones poncho shelter for the 2nd night was actually warmer despite the slightly colder temp that night. i lived and i learned

Nice outing, I love to see all the pics. Without them, I'd have to use my imagination I haven't been winter camping in years, last time I did it was in 3' of snow.
A big shelter is much harder to heat, at least lower your height. You can cover your wood with plastic, but outside the shelter? An emergency blanket, hanging inside your shelter, on the back wall would help, and they are so light.

I do like the shelter, but isn't all the plastic sort of heavy? I assume you'll use the same frame in the future, and take some more plastic? I guess I've always just taken my bivy sack, it's so light, and I can have it up in 5 minutes. Then again, I don't really have a hang out shelter either. If I went winter camping, I'd have to construct something as well.

I have that 12" Ontario Cutlass. No matter how I sanded that handle, it sucked. I made some out of stabilized hickory. So far, they are much better than the original. I still think I can refine them more. At some point, I want to do some micarta for an Ontario, and I think I want a thicker version of what Bark River has done.
This pic has my Ontario 12" next to the 14" version by Bark River.

thanks! i put the reflector on the outside frame so as to prevent it from sagging/flapping around. i need to sew more paracord tabs on the perimeter (there are only 4 - one on each corner) to secure it better next time. i'm a light sleeper and a flapping plastic in the wind usually is enough to wake me up!

the plastic was 5 lbs (according to the label). i'm definitely a tarp camper (see below for my preferred setup even in the winter - it was 20 deg f that day) and this was a one time experiment. with that said, i definitely put in a lot more work than i planned so i left it up there for a couple more uses before tearing it down. i left my sleeping bag there too actually. for next trip i'll see how low i can comfortably go with my doobie & woobie and have the bag as backup.

yeah, the stock handle shape on the ontario is way too blocky. i rounded the corners on the bottom part and it made a huge difference in comfort. i still prefer the kukri though ergonomics-wise. it might just be my favorite chopper right now. i just looked at amazon, it's like $19 crazy cheap!

where is this at?

i went backpacking this weekend in the San Gorgonio Wilderness in SoCal and fires are a no no there... i'd like to find a place like this in the area where i live...

harriman in ny. there are no primitive camp sites in your area? why not hang out with bearthedog - he's hiked all over the place and will know a good spot or two. esee started holding 3-day survival classes in ca recently too.

 

[trailbum]

Great thread.
I love my kukri machete.

 

[neeman]

A superb review
And great photos

Very interesting that the shelter was not warmer

 

[porsche11]

Awesome pictures man! As I was looking at them I thought the scenery looked very familiar. I live in Harriman, NY and my backyard is Harriman State Park. Haha pretty weird. Where in Jersey are you from?

 

[dakine]

Awesome pictures, saimin and spam, can't beat it. Are you filipino? There are filipinos in NJ? and they like snow? i call BS, no such thing!!!!