Another Chris Reeve Convert... in UK

savantuk

savantuk

Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Messages
268
Hello Chaps,

I've been collecting a while now, and have quite a large collection of folders, and I have to say, all are from the USA - there isn't a maker worth a damn in UK when it comes to folders (though Alan Brown has few peers when it comes to custom fixed blades):p . Anyway, I digress. I have tried them all, and my favourite so far has been the MOD Trident. It has the advantage of having a sub 3" blade to comply with UK carry law (we don't include the choil, just the sharpened edge) I also have a Mini CQD mk II, but pocket carry shaves the end from my finger tips, and the plunge lock is awkward. I have Benchmades (favourite- BM/Emerson CQD7), Emersons (favourite- Specwar Tanto - what the CQD 7 should have been), Spydercos (favourite - Howard Viele), a few european specials, and a very secondhand Michrotech Socom.

My main problem is this - UK import tax, and VAT. UK importers tend to charge £ for $, which is 33% more in real terms, and then charge import tax (8%), and vat (17.5%)on top of basic price + import tax. What this means is, essentially we are paying at least 50% more in the UK for the same spec knife, ie, what you pay $300 for, we pay $450!!:barf

Yesterday, after reading every review/report/article I could find, I stumped up $450 from my credit card, and ordered a large Sebenza from Framar UK. I went to bed happy last night, and had sweet dreams, but this morning, as I waited for the courier to arrive, I began to have doubts..... $450 for a production knife!! Was I mad?:confused: The bell rang and the postie asked me to sign. I took the package to my desk, and were my hands shaking as I unwrapped it? You bet. But no sooner was it out of the box, than all my doubts vanished. I am smitten! It is beautifully engineered, and feels as though it was hewn from a solid billet. It is the first knife ever (apart from SOCOM) that functioned exactly as I wished straight from the box (and the SOCOM was pre owned). The framelock is sheer genius, and the sheer thickness of it's construction gives enormous confidence. The blade is beautifully shaped with bags of belly, and an enormously sharp blade. Everything was just right... I even liked the little hangmans noose tied to the lanyard hole. I am at last a happy man - I have got now that which I have yearned for. Will it stop me buying more knives in the future? What do you think?:D

Regards from the beautiful Lake district of the UK,

<img src="http://members.aol.com/dougdarter/airplane.jpg"

Doug Darter
 
I too recently purchased a sebbie from framar and am as happy as a pig in the brown stuff.

I've been thinking a lot about the whole "wheather to import or not" thing but a part of me (the part that thinks he can afford it ;) ) feels that we need to support our british knife retailers cos god knows they are the only real respresentative that us brits like to collect knives and I cant help think we would be a lot worse of without them.

As far as you not buying anymore knives HA i've got my eye firmly placed on one of CRk's 1 piece models.

You should check out Mike Lampreys folders they are certainly world class though a little large for my tastes.

BTW where are you in the lakes I apent a very happy two years living in Penrith.
 
Dito, I got my Large Classic MM Sebi (Numbered 6 of 50) from Frank a couple of years ago. Its clipped to my right pocket right now in work...:D

I call her 'Gwaith' which is Welsh for 'work' thanks to Nemo for that idea and letting my loan his ATS-34 Benza 'Honor'.

It is sickening how much we have to pay importing stuff...:mad: :(

Cheers!
 
Hello Chaps!!

Regarding my previous post about the Sebenza, and the price in UK. I had to buy this knife in UK, because previously, when I've tried to import folders, that look the least bit agressive, they have ended up in the pocket of a Customs and Excise Officer... of course, I've been told that the item has been 'destroyed'!! A euphemism for????:mad:

Fixed blades are a different matter. Here, the cost of the knife in the US can be an absolute advantage. Most buyers in the UK would never dream of importing a knife, so they fall upon any unusual imported knife, like a pack of dogs on a skinny cat. The important thing to remember is the British psyche..... all dealers sell the same item at the same price as the next dealer, ie, the list price. The net result being that if they see a knife for sale in the UK, that must be it's price, QED, and of course they are nearly always correct. Some might look up the US price on the net, and add 33% +8%+17.5%, plus postage, and come to the conclusion that the UK price is about right, or it's too much bother. They become as Pavlovs dogs - conditioned! Essentially, therefore, anything cheaper than the UK dealer price, to them seems a bargain.

Here's where we can have fun:D :D

An example. Last week, I imported two Bear BCG 9" blade, damascus bowies, with stag scales. These are deleted now, and only available with wooden scales. After postage, import tax, and VAT, the net cost of each of these knives to me was £150. ($225) I was able to buy them cheap, because the dealer was shedding his stock.

I put one on a well known auction site as an instant purchase, at £220 ($330) It was sold within minutes, and I sold the second for the same price a few minutes later, when a buyer who had hesitated missed the first one - he emailed me asking if I had another. The profit then, for 5 mins work was £140 ($210). These buyers were ecstatic!! No wonder when, and get this, THE CHEAPEST KNIFE WITH A DAMASCUS BLADE IN THE UK, is generally a Case folder, with a small blade, at around £120 ($180):mad:

Another good one is the Buck Intrepid..... sells in UK for around £175 ($260). I can get one, all taxes and post paid to the UK, from the US for around £40 ($60) I can sell them at less than half the UK RRP and still make a profit. Enough - I'm giving away my secrets, but suffice it to say, if I ever buy in a knife from abroad for myself, I almost always buy two. Bollocks, now I've got to order another Bear damascus Bowie. Anybody seen any going cheap in the US?

Regards,

Doug

PS - for Morose.... I have lived all over Cumbria. It is Cumbria I refer to as the Lake District. I presently have a house overlooking the Solway coast, just south of the Scottish border, Nr Longtown.
 
The Sebenza is the best!! I don't really consider it a production knife since a lot is still carefully crafted by hand, but I'm from the old school days of the Sebenza. I have 4 and I love them all!!!!
 
Off topic question but I'm curious. I thought locking knives were illegal in the UK. Hence the Spyderco Pride...BTW I hear the Pride is coming out with a British Flag...
 
What if you buy a new Sebenza from Ebay or one of the knife forums for, lets say, $300 and have them ship it to you marked as a gift, wont you then avoid the VAT altogether? Add $30 to ship it Global Express 3-day (automatically insured for up to $500), and you have a new Sebenza to your door in 3 days for $330, and not $450.
 
Hello Chaps,

I'm gratified for the answers to my post. To answer the last two questions...

Locking knives are not illegal in the uk. Essentially the UK knife law is rather strange, and enigmatic. The Law actually says that it is illegal to carry ANY knife on the person, in public. It then makes a couple of exceptions, ie knives necessary as part of ones professional equipment, but the onus is on the person carrying to justify their carrying it, and any FOLDING knife, with a SHARPENED blade length, not exceeding 3".

The law also prohibits some knives under a different section, and treats them as offensive weapons;

Balisongs
Automatics
Gravity blades
Flick knives
Belt knives
Knives disguised as other items
Sword sticks
Knives specifically designed to be carried as a concealed weapon.

The law prohibits the import, purchase and sale of these weapons, BUT it is not illegal to own one, but to carry, or use one in public is an arrestable offence (felony)

It is suspected that early next year, in revisions to the Criminal Justice Act, that the law is going to be changed. It is supposed that the ammended law will say that it is illegal to carry any knife in public, PERIOD, But that the onus to prove justified carry will be on the Police, and not on the carrier. Essentially, the intention of this ammendment is to tighten carriage in public, but it will, in effect make carriage easier.

With regard to importation as a gift...

The law provides that any item imported from outside the European Union, will be allowed in free of tax, so lung as it is worth no more than $27.00. If the parcel is examined, and found to contain an item worth more than this amount, then the parcel will be confiscate. In practice however, most will be released on payment of the tax, on it's re-evaluated value, and this will be the UK value, + 8% import tax, and 17.5% tax on value + 8% and also Customs, and Post office handling charges. This makes the item horifically expensive.

I have tried, legally,to circumvent these charges, with very little success. I'n sure quite a lot get through, but none of mine have, so far.

Regards,

Doug
 
Sorry to hear you had a hard time with UK Customs Doug....but $450 for a Sebbie, dam that's TNT money (or it used to be lol). I bought a (used) Seb from here for around 200 less. I guess I've been lucky.

Cool selling tips :) Thanks & enjoy your Sebenza.
 
Hi again. Well, i sell rare, fossil shark teeth for a living, many of them can easily cost $500-$1000, and we ship them overseas all the time, many have gone to the UK. Most of our UK customers ask us to mark on the customs form that the tooth/teeth are a gift with a value of $15 and they avoid the VAT completely. I guess the difference is that customs really doesnt know or care to prove that a fossil shark tooth is valued higher than $15, while they would know immediately that a Sebenza is indeed far more valuable than $25. Oh well, it was just a thought. The question is though, do you think customs KNOWS a Sebenza costs more than $25, after all, there are many knives out there that run $25 or less. Of course any knife nut can see the quality of a Sebenza and know its not a $25 knife, but would the average customs guy know?
 
Oh, and one more thing. The criminals in the UK must be thanking your law makers for making their job so much easier and safer. :grumpy:
 
Hello,

I concede absolutely all of your points, particularly the one which implies that a customs officer can't tell a good knife from a bad one:p

I still have two problems. One is insurmountable. It is that IF a clever customs officer decides that the knife IS misdescribed, he then has the right to confiscate it. This happens all too often. Ask Frank at Framar knives... he has lot's of good tales to tell.

The second, is that if the knife is sent, and valued at say, $100, which is a lot less than it's true value, then if it goes missing, the max insurance payable will be $100. There are not a lot of dealers I know that would be willing to risk that.

Ah well, thanks for trying anyway. Seems that there is no way to get around this problem.

Regards,

Doug
 
Originally posted by savantuk

Locking knives are not illegal in the uk.
Click to expand...

Alas it is however unlawful to possess a lock knife in a public place. The exemption for a folding knife has been challenged by case law (R v Deegan 1998), and it was held that a lock knife was not a folding knife.

I am not condoning this, merely reporting it. It is a practice, of course, thast is widely ignored, and a mature copper (there really are some out there) would use a bit of common sense as it makes even Leathermans unlawful in a public place. Those are the sad facts though.

The definition of "blade" is not defined either, although again common sense would suggest that a screwdriver blade, or the blade of a cricket bat or an oar would not be unlawful. One thing to note is that nowhere in the Act does the word sharpened appear, hence a drone or training knife, with a blunt blade, is still "an article with a blade".

My favourite get out though, is that none of this counts if the article is carried "for religious reasons or as part of a national costume". Mustn't upset the ethnic minorities and their respective beliefs.
Hence all of us who put "Jedi" under religion in the last Census are exempt. :D
 
Thought I would chip in with some additional info for folks considering importing stuff into the UK.

The website of HM Customs & Excise (http://www.hmce.gov.uk/) is pretty useful except that the Tariff is not yet available online (see http://www.hmce.gov.uk/business/importing/tariff/tariff.htm).

The website dispells a number of common misconceptions / urban myths. For example did you know that:

* Duty and VAT must be paid on all items bought over the Internet and imported into the United Kingdom. Although goods bought tax paid for your own use from within the EU AND personally transported to the UK by you are free of duty and VAT in the UK, if you ask, or pay, someone else to transport them for you (e.g. goods bought over the Internet), duty and VAT must be paid. (See http://www.hmce.gov.uk/public/shopping/shopping.htm) HOWEVER, items shipped from within the EU are not checked by HMCE as systematically as items shipped from outside the EU.

* Customs duty + excise duty + VAT can apply to second-hand goods imported into the UK from outside the UK.

* The limit for gifts is 45 Euros. (See http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/143.htm) Where the value of private gifts falls between 45 Euros and 350 Euros, a flat rate of 3.5% import duty may be applied.

Hope this helps. If anyone out there has a recent copy of the Tariff I'd be interested to know the rates of import duty applied to knives.
 
Its true i forgot to mention that if a customer requests that we mark the item as a gift, and a low declared value, that should the item get lost or damaged, we are not responsible. Its for these reasons that we greatly prefer to ship to the UK via Global Express, declared and insured for a reasonable, if not full amount, but, again, if a customer wants to risk it to avoid the taxes, we do accommodate, albeit grudgingly. Its for these reasons that a lot of Ebay sellers like ourselves wont sell outside the US, too much of a hassle.
 
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