Another #$%! CRKT Thread

C

Confederate

Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
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Okay, I'm still simmering over CRKT's chisel grind design of its knives.

I now understand what the chisel grind is and that it takes a somewhat different type of cutting edge than a standard V-grind (at least on CRKT knives). But why do they put the bevel on the left side of the blade? And does this present any problems for any other right-handed people out there?

If I cut with these blades, I'm going to hold the knife in my right hand. The beveled part of the blade is now down. Any cut to wood or other material is going to have to flow over that bevel once it's cut and away from the blade. It seems that if someone was going to cut, that the bevel should be on the side away from the material being cut. But if I'm cutting at, say, a 25-30-degree angle, I'm not likely to shear any part of the material off because there's no "bite." (See image below.)

On a V-grind, both sides of the blade are beveled, granted, but the edge is finer, allowing the blade to cut at a fairly slight angle, but not so with the CG that CRKT uses.

I only see occasional complaints about this, so I don't know if it's because most people aren't using their chisel-grind knives or, if so, they all happen to be left-handed.

Is anyone else having this problem? (When I was carrying these knives for self defense, cord cutting and package opening, this wasn't a problem. Now that I'm trying to cut other things, like wood, it is.) For awhile, sharpening the blades on both side seemed to help, but of course it didn't last.

Thanks!

CG1.jpg


The CRKT chisel grind (top) shows bevel in relation to
the cutting edge as cut by a right-hander. The angle below
is more how a left-hander would cut using the same knife
blade (not drawn to scale or proportion). Which provides
the best cut?
 
yes, chisel grinds on the left are backwards for the majority of people. This is a problem with all brands that do this, and it is generally considered that the blades are ground this way for aesthetics. You look at the left side of the knife when you hold it in your hand, and is a common orientation for pictures.
 
I don't understand why you are so hostile towards CRKT about this.

If you don't like it, don't buy their knives. It's not like they tricked you, the grind shouldn't have come as a surprise.
 
I have a family member who has a CRKT and my solution to the chisel grind was to change it. I sharpened both sides. It came out even and cuts very well - maybe alittle too well, he needed a bandage after I returned it to him. But now that he's used to it, he loves it.
Bob
 
I'm not hostile towards CRKT, I just don't approve of their designs. If they want to chisel grind their blades, fine, but they should realize that most people are right-handed. Their current design hampers right-handed users in even simple tasks.

I also realize that many people buy these knives only for their aesthethics, but c'mon...it's an awful design. Sharpening both sides will never solve the bevel problem.
 
I agree with you. It is silly of the American manufacturers to make the single bevel knives left handed. They do this so that the bevel will show on the traditional mark side of the blade. It's very silly. Personally, I haven't been able to get them to change their ways. The best advice I can give you is buy Japanese single bevel knives. They make them right handed with the left handed models as a special order.
 
Well, I just got off the phone with CRKT, where I spoke to a very pleasant young lady. She explained that the techies were off on a business trip for the next few days, but she indicated that my observations made sense. She said their own tests had shown that CG blades were sharper and held their edges better than V-grind knives, but conceded that the bevel being on the left side didn't make much sense. She promised to bring the matter up with the tech people when they returned.
 
Oh yeah, the Chisel Grind, and also the fact that most of their steel is too soft with bad edge geometry. Spend your cash elsewhere if they don't tickle your fancy, there are better steels, better edges and for less money everywhere - Opinel, Spyderco FRN models and other lower prices alternatives.
 
Confederate said:
I'm not hostile towards CRKT, I just don't approve of their designs. If they want to chisel grind their blades, fine, but they should realize that most people are right-handed. Their current design hampers right-handed users in even simple tasks.

I also realize that many people buy these knives only for their aesthethics, but c'mon...it's an awful design. Sharpening both sides will never solve the bevel problem.
Click to expand...
I understand what your saying, but they do it the way they do because of how it looks, its unfortunate but a large majority of their customers buy their knives cause they look cool, not for their usefullness...lol...But its not new to the knife community, alot of companies do the same thgin for the same reason, its just what goes on...if you can convince CRKT to change it, then all the power to ya! :D
 
Emerson Knives have the same style of chisel. I have often thought of this exact situation, but I don't think I'll ever be using my cqc-7b to whittle wood with.
 
No, but it keeps otherwise good knives from being used for survival purposes. The claim that CG blades hold an edge better is ridiculous. If customer concerns are really their primary goal, why wouldn't they produce their M21-04 (without serrations) in a chisel grind? Or their S-2 (non-serrated)? I suspect CGs are cheaper/faster than good V-grinds. If Emerson grinds the left side of their blades, too, that's even more disappointing.
 
Emersons are chisel-ground for a lefty grip. Funnily enough, their linerlocks unlock for a right-hander.

It's wrong for a right-hander, but hell, they don't seem to have a lot of trouble selling their product, and I even have one (and enjoy it) so I'm not in any position to tell him what to do. ;)

-j
 
Any carpenter familiar with wood chisels will know that the beveled side will face the surface being cut as the bevel acts as a leverage point allowing the user to control the depth of cut. Such is the chisel grind on some CRKT knives such as the M16s. It is most effective for a righty because you should always be cutting away from your body. This being said, the beveled side has nothing to do with aesthetics. However, the benefits of the chisel grind are lost on most. Don't hate the knife because you lack the knowledge to understand what it's built for. I love CRKT and can't stand this stream of ignorant criticisms of their company. Unless you are a lefty, the left-bevel chisel grind is an excellent feature for a multi-purpose knife. Just got my Hissatsu folder and this is a beautiful knife.
 
Lethal Force,

I never see carpenter using chisel with the bevel facing towards the surface of the wood. Always away, so than the wood shavings go away from the wood block, being pushed out by the bevel. Do you have any pics of a carpenter using it otherwise?

Confederate,
I agree with your observation & diagram, but CRKT is not the only one doing this. All other manufacturer also do the same. And yes, it's how the knife displayed with the mark/brand along with the bevel is their way to go.
 
Chris "Anagarika";5292692 said:
I never see carpenter using chisel with the bevel facing towards the surface of the wood. Always away, so than the wood shavings go away from the wood block, being pushed out by the bevel. Do you have any pics of a carpenter using it otherwise?
Click to expand...

me either, and it's too bad that in the entire history of Japanese cutlery they have been putting chisel grinds on the wrong side of their blades.
 
RLR said:
...most of their steel is too soft with bad edge geometry. Spend your cash elsewhere if they don't tickle your fancy, there are better steels, better edges and for less money everywhere - Opinel, Spyderco FRN models and other lower prices alternatives.
Click to expand...
I have nothing against AUS8A. In fact, I'm very happy with its performance vice its price range. I have some of the others you mentioned, but have to admit I love the M21-04. It's beautiful, cuts well and doesn't have a chisel grind. From a self defense standpoint, I like the M16-14LEs a great deal, but again, not their ability to cut wood. The thing is, the bloody knife probably isn't supposed to cut wood. It's not made for it. But my M21-04 will cut wood because it's not chisel grind.

Dekz said:
Might want to read your thread title there chief. ;)
Click to expand...
Thank you. Regarding the thread title, that's frustration, not hostility. I was very pleasant with them on the phone. You would have been proud.

lethal force said:
Any carpenter familiar with wood chisels will know that the beveled side will face the surface being cut as the bevel acts as a leverage point allowing the user to control the depth of cut. ... the benefits of the chisel grind are lost on most. Don't hate the knife because you lack the knowledge to understand what it's built for.
Click to expand...
Well, knives aren't chisels and the same principles don't govern how they both function. Chisels work very well with wood and they will cut well both bevel up and bevel down (depending on the angle); however, chisel grind blades don't tend to work very well for me and many others who have weighed in here because you have to cut at an angle exceeding that of the bevel. Thus, stripping bark from a branch is far more difficult with a chisel grind, bevel-down cut. Flip the knife blade over, grasp the handle with your left hand (if you're able), and of course you'll get the bite and you can strip the bark quite easily. With a knife, you don't need to control the angle so much, as you would a chisel, and couldn't anyway because the bevel is so tiny that it would be difficult to leverage anything.

If your CRKT works for you, I'm thrilled. And as I said above, yeah, I have an affinity for the knives. I also would love to get a Hissatsu. The only knife I really don't care for in their lineup is the Ryan 7. The blade's so thick that it almost makes it solely a tactical.

Snap6.jpg


CRKT M21-14. This is the serrated version and has a CG. The -04 is not
serrated and has a V-grind. Interesting.

Snap7.jpg


The M16-14LE.
 
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