Another damascus failure (?)

[Arathol]

Short story.....Picked up a matched set of Argentinian made knives, about 40 years old. The larger one was said to be forged pattern welded carbon steel, with pics to back that up. The problem is that the previous owner thought it would be a good idea to "clean" the blade on a 2" belt grinder....

.....All traces of whatever pattern was present are gone.
Pics of what it looked like before....the larger blade does indeed seem to be pattern welded damascus....

So, having knives in hand I was hoping to restore the blade etching, but so far all efforts have lead to zero results. I'm using MG 415 FeCl etching solution, at room temp. I've tried it full strength and in varying dilutions with vinegar, and at varying times in the acid bath up to 30 minutes. I've tried varying degrees of polishing from 600 to 3000 grit. The blade is cleaned/degreased thoroughly with acetone. No sign of the blade pattern has appeared, all it does is cover the blade with an even black coating. I am confident that the process works, as I used the same process to restore the etching on my old Buck 110 with a badly faded damascus blade.

I am at a loss to explain why its not working on the blade in question. What am I missing here? Are there other etching processes that might work, or something else that might be stopping the etching process?

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Time? How long did you soak it?
It is also possible that the blade has an etched pattern and is not damascus.

Was the Buck 110 done at the same time with the same batch of FC? Maybe the FC has lost its strength. Also, I am not a fan of diluting with vinegar.

Try some fresh FC diluted 3:1 with distilled water. Wash the blade with soap and water and rinse with hot water. Put it in for 10 minutes, rinse and wipe off with a clean paper towel, put back for 10 more. If there is nothing after 30 minutes, then the blade may not be damascus.

 

[DevinT]

There wasn’t very much damascus steel being made 40 years ago, it might have been etched to look like damascus.

Hoss

 

[Arathol]

Time? How long did you soak it?
It is also possible that the blade has an etched pattern and is not damascus.

Was the Buck 110 done at the same time with the same batch of FC? Maybe the FC has lost its strength. Also, I am not a fan of diluting with vinegar.

Try some fresh FC diluted 3:1 with distilled water. Wash the blade with soap and water and rinse with hot water. Put it in for 10 minutes, rinse and wipe off with a clean paper towel, put back for 10 more. If there is nothing after 30 minutes, then the blade may not be damascus.

As I posted, I did varying times up to 30 minutes.
The 110 was done at the same time with fresh FeCl.
I used both full strength and diluted FeCl.
The blade is old, from the 1970s or earlier and is from a maker with a reputation for making quality blades. I have no reason to believe its just an etch applied on the blade. In addition, on the spine there is what appears to be faint layering under the pitting....

I'll try more tomorrow with longer soak times.

 

[DevinT]

Dilute the FC way down and use a high polish on the blade and a long soak in the solution.

Hoss

 

[Arathol]

Dilute the FC way down and use a high polish on the blade and a long soak in the solution.

Hoss

Yeah I'm taking it down to 3000 grit now.....

 

[Arathol]

Well, an update of sorts, good and bad....
Polished the blade to 3000 grit and cleaned it thoroughly. Mixed about a 10% solution of the MG 415 FeCl in distilled water. Soaked all afternoon, about 4 hours. Checked regularly and wiped off the black stuff, scuffed up the blade a bit with 0000 steel wool. The results....not much. The blade is almost certainly some sort of layered steel. I can see some bits of layering here and there but the full pattern just not coming out.

I'm not sure how far I want to go with this. I don't want to screw up the blade with more long soak times that might do more harm than good.

 

[DevinT]

Well, an update of sorts, good and bad....
Polished the blade to 3000 grit and cleaned it thoroughly. Mixed about a 10% solution of the MG 415 FeCl in distilled water. Soaked all afternoon, about 4 hours. Checked regularly and wiped off the black stuff, scuffed up the blade a bit with 0000 steel wool. The results....not much. The blade is almost certainly some sort of layered steel. I can see some bits of layering here and there but the full pattern just not coming out.

I'm not sure how far I want to go with this. I don't want to screw up the blade with more long soak times that might do more harm than good.

It might be shear steel.

Hoss

 

[Arathol]

It might be shear steel.

Hoss

Now you got me thinking.....so I started digging around and found that its older than I thought, made sometime between 1944 and 1948. Shear steel is a real possibility, maybe double shear, but maybe a bit outside the timeline? I guess in Argentina it might still have been in use during the war years and right after.