I have several questions and comments regarding edge configuration on my Busse knives,some of which I have brought up in the past.My first observation is that I have noticed after using my Busse for the first time it seems that after the first real sharpening the edge seems better than the factory edge and it also seems to hold its edge longer.Can this be contributed to burs along the edge that get worn away after getting used. My second question is the assymetrical edge.Cliff Stamp has addressed this question in the past but I still wonder how long the assymetrical edge will last before it needs a complete reprofiling?With symm edges in a sense you are reprofiling everytime you sharpen,but it seems that the assym edge is getting more and more flattened or worn after subsatantial use.So how long will it last under normal use? My 3rd question is penetration with a thicker edge and how the crinkle may slow penetration.I have noticed that a thicker edge on my SJ is less likely to make easy follow thru cuts thru saplings than say a Randalls thinner edge profile.Does the crinkle retard this penetration somewhat due to grip?Does the thicker edge inhibit chopping performance?My biggest concern however is the flattening of a steeper bevel over an extended period of time,how much will it take? Fun qestions to ponder huh!??
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Another edge question?
- Thread starter marsupial
- Start date
RokJok
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- Oct 6, 2000
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Yes.
Today I removed a bunch of suckers growing out of a maple stump on my property line. Since they were small (up to about 1" or a bit larger in diameter), I chopped them into about 6" long pieces with my 0.1" thick fully convex edge modified Busse Basic 7. I would occasionally flip the knife over and try using the much thicker regular Busse edge on the other side of the blade to chop up this very soft green wood to see how it would compare to the thinner edge on the knife's spine side.
The performance difference between the two edges is substantial. This is true even with the standard Busse edge being backed by only about a 0.1" thick max blade, which should offer easier penetration than the standard 0.25" thickness. The ease with which the thinner convex edge entered the branches outer surface was several magnitudes (to my uncalibrated hand
) easier than the regular Busse edge. Part of the Busse edge's lesser performance may also have been due to grinding loss of the considerable blade mass usually driving it forward into the material being chopped. But my impression in this instance is of the edge entry itself being much easier, not the overall penetration depth being greater.I'm beginning to get real interested in Bowie size blades in 1/8" or substantially thinner stock as wood chopping or limbing tools for thinnish green branches. Another alternative would be a golok or even a long thin blade like the sugar cane knife I saw at a gun show recently.
Now if I could get Busse or SRKW to release a 3/32" thick 12"-14" long full flat ground bolo blade with a SRKW handle on it ...
Cliff Stamp
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marsupial :
A fine ceramic hod hones to ~micron, thus each edge touch up removes ~5 microns deep of steel (typical Busse edge profile). There are 1000 microns in a mm, and the busse edge is several mm wide. Thus it will take ~1000 of sharpenings with a fine ceramic on the flat side to totally remove the convex part of the bevel. If you periodically strop both sides on leather loaded with CrO, you can slow down this process to a near stand still. The biggest practical concern in terms of edge wear is whacking into rocks and such.
Surface friction is always a drawback, but usually isn't signficant on most materials, but can be seen on some, cardboard for example. It is also easily drowned out by even small changes in blade geometry. But yes, if you mirror polish that blade with the crinkle coat, you will see an improvement in cutting ability. Similar if you keep the blade well lubricated.
-Cliff
A fine ceramic hod hones to ~micron, thus each edge touch up removes ~5 microns deep of steel (typical Busse edge profile). There are 1000 microns in a mm, and the busse edge is several mm wide. Thus it will take ~1000 of sharpenings with a fine ceramic on the flat side to totally remove the convex part of the bevel. If you periodically strop both sides on leather loaded with CrO, you can slow down this process to a near stand still. The biggest practical concern in terms of edge wear is whacking into rocks and such.
Surface friction is always a drawback, but usually isn't signficant on most materials, but can be seen on some, cardboard for example. It is also easily drowned out by even small changes in blade geometry. But yes, if you mirror polish that blade with the crinkle coat, you will see an improvement in cutting ability. Similar if you keep the blade well lubricated.
-Cliff
Cliff Stamp
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- 17,562
RokJok :
I have used several such knives with 10"+ blades indluding a Tramontina bowie with a full flat grind on 1/8" stock and was not impressed with any of them for wood work. The penetration is great, it can be for example in excess of the GB Wildlife Hatchet, but the wedging is horrible, and the feedback bad. In general, the wedging isn't a problem with limbing, but on a misplaced hit it can be frustrating to have to work the blade out which induces much more fatigue than clearing the rest of the tree.
With a blade that has an edge profile optomized for wood cutting, the performance can be very high without excess binding or shock even with 3/16"+ spines. The Valiant blades are pretty much ideal in that department (dual convex grind, no secondary edge bevel), but because of the very soft spines they can be bent fairly easily in spite of the stock thickness, so care needs to be taken in that regard, avoid heavy prying to clear out wood chips for example.
I have used a Tramontina Bolo (1/8") for a lot of wood work, mainly as I was curious to see how long it would take to break (a few months and the vibration has made the handle too lose to be functional except for short periods of time). It is a great blade for such up to heavy bucking of wood (not practical on much beyond 6" thick except for the really soft stuff). But when you compare it to something like the Valiant Golok, or even my woodcraft SHBM, it is obvious that it is suffering in comparison.
Check out the "Edge", made by Mel Sorg and owned by Marvin Edgeworth :
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/madpoet/gallery.html
(Angelfire gets upset if you link directly to images hence the gallery link)
-Cliff
I have used several such knives with 10"+ blades indluding a Tramontina bowie with a full flat grind on 1/8" stock and was not impressed with any of them for wood work. The penetration is great, it can be for example in excess of the GB Wildlife Hatchet, but the wedging is horrible, and the feedback bad. In general, the wedging isn't a problem with limbing, but on a misplaced hit it can be frustrating to have to work the blade out which induces much more fatigue than clearing the rest of the tree.
With a blade that has an edge profile optomized for wood cutting, the performance can be very high without excess binding or shock even with 3/16"+ spines. The Valiant blades are pretty much ideal in that department (dual convex grind, no secondary edge bevel), but because of the very soft spines they can be bent fairly easily in spite of the stock thickness, so care needs to be taken in that regard, avoid heavy prying to clear out wood chips for example.
I have used a Tramontina Bolo (1/8") for a lot of wood work, mainly as I was curious to see how long it would take to break (a few months and the vibration has made the handle too lose to be functional except for short periods of time). It is a great blade for such up to heavy bucking of wood (not practical on much beyond 6" thick except for the really soft stuff). But when you compare it to something like the Valiant Golok, or even my woodcraft SHBM, it is obvious that it is suffering in comparison.
Check out the "Edge", made by Mel Sorg and owned by Marvin Edgeworth :
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/madpoet/gallery.html
(Angelfire gets upset if you link directly to images hence the gallery link)
-Cliff
SALTY
Gold Member
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- Mar 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,803
Yet another reason to keep your edges keen and avoid having to face majoy sessions of blade steel removal. I have found INFI blades to stay keen with a small amount of regular care. Guess it all goes back to the ounce of prevention being worth a piund of cure theory.
Ditto.
-Cliff [/QUOTE]