Another forge question

B

Blackdirt cowboy

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Oct 29, 2015
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As can be seen in my other thread, I just made my first knife. Now I’m hooked. I hear treated that knife with an icy-acetylene torch. I’d like to go ahead and upgrade to a forge. I’ve been researching all day and I’m still as confused as ever. Here’s my conundrum...

I know at some point, I’m going to want to weld Damascus billets and forge knives. Most likely sooner rather than later. I also know that I will probably start to dabble in forging other metal items besides knives. I absolutely have the ability to build a gas forge, but I just don’t have the time, so I would need to buy one in order to get forging soon. I know gas forges aren’t the best for welding, but I do have access to a very old champion hand blower forge that is coal fired.

Would I be better served digging this old forge out of the back of my shop and getting it going? Obviously it would work great for welding, but it would probably not be a good option for tempering. Or should I buy a gas forge that is capable of doing double duty, knowing that it’s not going to last as long as it should? My mind is telling me to revive the old forge for welding, and buy a small gas forge for tempering, but I don’t really have the room for all the extra equipment. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.
 
Blackdirt cowboy said:
I know gas forges aren’t the best for welding
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Howdy, Blackdirt. Not sure where you got this information. Almost every maker I know uses gas forges for their damascus.
Blackdirt cowboy said:
knowing that it’s not going to last as long as it should
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If you're referring to the borax flux degrading the lining, this is true, but there are work arounds. One is to not use flux, which is what I and many others do. Another is to get something like a ceramic kiln shelf to protect the floor when welding with borax. Or, just go ahead and not worry about it and maybe have to re-do the floor of the forge every few years, depending on how much forge welding you are actually doing. Don't forget, flux isn't glue, and you don't need as much as you typically see folks use on youtube videos.
 
That’s great to know. I was worried about the borax degrading the forge. I’ll look more into the propane forges now. Do you use a PID controller on your gas forge?
 
If you are looking for a high quality forge that will work for blacksmith projects as well as knifemaking and damascus, take a look at the NC Whisper Lowboy. It is a great all purpose forge. Mine has run flawlessly for well over 20 years. They have other models that have different chamber sizes.

On a lower price, look at the Atlas Graham and the new larger tube forge with blown burner. Also excellent. The PID conversion in woe's post can be added to one and make it a controlled forge.
 
Thanks, Stacy. I’ve actually been looking at that lowboy forge. Honestly, curiosity got the best of me, and I dug that old coal forge out of the back of the shop today. I’m going to get it going and see how it goes. I’ll probably still end up building/buying a gas forge at some point. But I’ve always been a traditionalist and love the old ways. I’ll post pics of the forge in a bit.
 
Well, I got everything patched up on the old forge. Here’s a couple of pictures of it. Can anyone tell me definitively if I need to redo the clay liner? I’ve read both ways, that it needs it and it doesn’t need it. Not sure what to do about that.

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I wasn’t kidding at all. It was a genuine question. I know the current liner is shot. But I read on anvilfire where they didn’t recommend lining a heavy cast iron forge for fear it would trap moisture between the clay and the pan and rust the pan out. But, common sense tells me to line it because my great grandad thought it was important to line it.

Where I live, the soils are heavy black clay. Can I just use that and mix with sand for the liner? Surely I don’t need to buy clay from the store?
 
Fwiw,
We dont line our coalforges. But one forge, I replaced its bowl after 15 years or so, and it was well used before we got it.
If you try backyard clay, dont mix sand with it.
Just lay it on, let it dry several days.
Even so, it will probably contain moisture. Slowly heat up its initial fire.
Btw,
Interesting tableforge with a built in coalbin. Of the dozens tableforges I seen over the years, only one other similar to yours.
 
If say you probably want refractory cement. You can get it from www.hightemptools.com
Or other places...
Basically you want something that can stand up to 2000+ degree heat
 
All I know about this forge is its a champion. Maybe a model 712 as that’s stamped on the ash dump. I believe it’s a late 1800s or very early 1900s model.
 
When I said "reline" I was referring to rebuilding the fire clay bowl in the pan.

As it is now, the forge was setup for blacksmith work with long bars, with a trough that goes across both sides. Unless you plan on doing swords or ornamental blacksmith work, you can close off the opening on one side and leave it on the side with the tong rest and damper control.
Converting it to an electric blower (or adding a second electric blower and making it dual blower) is more advantageous in knifemaking.
 
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Thanks for all the help, but I’m a little confused now. The fire pot is actually made of heavier cast iron than the pan is. There’s no evidence of any liner material ever being in the fire pot, except to cover the bolt heads that hold the tuyere on. So are you saying I need to line the fire pot and not the pan? Should I line the whole thing? I’ve seen videos where some guys line the pan and not the fire pot. I’ve also seen videos of guys using the forge with no lining at all. I’m sorry If I’m being foolish and over complicating things. I just can’t find any definitive information on what’s recommended.

I understand what you mean about closing off the opposite side. I think I’ll leave it open, as I do plan on doing other things with the forge in addition to knife making. Again, I’m sorry if I’m asking dumb questions. I really just trying to learn and not destroy a 100 year old forge.
 
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