Another Henry Baer design by an American manufacturer

Codger_64

Codger_64

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A few days ago I received a padded envelope from CCI (Colonial Cutlery International). I have been expecting a few knives to review, but this was a single knife in the same fitted deluxe presentation box as the bone lockback I reviewed a while back.

Upon opening the box, to say I was surprised would be an understatement. Months ago during my discussions with Steve Paolantonio, I had mentioned my lament over the demise of Schrade, and in particular the popular 897UH Premium Signature Stockman. I asked him if they produced a similar pattern, or had plans to. He directed me to their cocobolo stockman of similar size, but said they had no near term plans to make a jigged delrin version. In the box was a very close version of my beloved 897UH tangstamped "Colonial Prov. RI. '05" with the "Old Cutler" oval shield!!

I have yet to give it a thorough trouncing, but at first impression it is as nice (I cannot bring myself to admit nicer) as the Schrade stockman I am so fond of.

The overall size, stainless blade selection (clip, spey, sheepsfoot), nickle silver bolsters, brass pins and liners, two-tone jigged delrin scales all make for a very nice substitute for my old standby, doubly so being American made. It walks and talks well (perhaps too well, if that is possible), needing only some lube and wear in. Slightly enlarged nail nicks are welcome, since when I need to open my knife at work I need it pronto, with no fumbling about. The scales are pinned with no gaps at the bolster ends or next to the liners, with flush transition to the backsprings and bolsters.

An odd detail is that on my faithful Uncle Henry, the shield is read when the knife is resting on the backsprings. The Old Cutler is opposite, read with the knife in hand in the open position.

My thanks to Steve and the fine folks at Colonial for coming to the fore with a fine domestic production replacement for a noble slipjoint that went to chinee in a handbag.

I made a scan of the two knives together for comparison, but since I cannot post pictures, I will ask Larry or Phil if they will post it here for me.

Codger
 
It is a big file and will need cropping, framing, color enhancement, and other wonders of editing. I would have sent it to Larry, but he is getting rid of a daughter. No, not ebay, marriage! And his new son sounds like a keeper! He hunts, fishes....maybe likes knives?

Codger
 
Here we go...
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I like it. I like it alot. Thanks, Mike for bringing this to our attention.

Phil
 
Codger,

I share your impressions of the knife. I received one about a month ago (the free Colonial Knife Offer). I have to say that I like it. I initially thought that it was a give-away because I thought that the Old Cutler shield was incorrectly mounted. I guess that's the way they intended it.

I haven't had the heart to put mine to the stone yet, but it is certainly sharper than an U/H from the factory. Keep us posted on how it performs.
 
Steve has not provided me with much information on this one yet, so the MSRP, model name, and availability are up in the air for the time being. The differences are apparent to one familiar with the 897. Each blade on the Old Cutler Stockman is very slightly different from the Schrade model. The spey blade of the Schrade has parallel top and bottom, the Old Cutler is slightly tapered , larger near the point, smaller at the tang. The clip blade is still what I would call a Turkish clip, but the crest at the top of the blade is moved slightly forward on the Old Cutler. It is Colonial's own design, not a copy. The sheepsfoot blade has a different curvature on the descending unsharpened blade point. But the blades are near identicle in length, as is the closed knife. And of couse, the jigging is similar but not identical, so it was an original molding, not a dupe of the Schrade mold. Also the head of the pivot pin for the backsprings is smaller on the Old Cutler, though the pin itself is probably not. Both seem to have carbon steel backsprings, and near identical snap. The Old Cutler is not a dime store knife, nor a cheap foreign knockoff. It is more of what I expect of a well made American knife. Not a top line hand made custom mind you, but as near to an old production favorite as I am likely to see from new stock. The 897UH was made for 37 years, and based on Schrade stockman designs even older. I hope Colonial has that kind of success with their Old Cutler Stockman.

Codgernotashill
 
Colonial introduced the OLD CUTLER line in the mid-1970's...all with cardon steel blades and delrin handles.

Based on the name OLD CULTER and its similarity to OLD TIMER, I always assumed that the OLD CUTLER line was intended to compete with Schrade's OT line in the marketplace.

OLD CUTLERS of that era were solidly well-made and very reasonably priced....but strangley in over 30 years of knife collecting I have never once seen the OLD CUTLER line for sale in a retail store.

Any idea what other OLD CUTLER patterns are offered now...and are any in carbon steel?
 
Codger, I just checked and the main thing that I see different (that my cause me a little concern) is that the O/C blades are thinner than the U/H. The O/C has notched the spine of the blades. When I held the U/H in one hand and the O/C in the other hand, I thought that the O/C felt slightly lighter. After closer examination of the blade width, that explains why.
 
I'll ask Steve and see if I can find out. He is busy as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs, so I don't expect an immediate reply. But maybe he can get me out a flyer on them. They do not appear in the current catalogue, but he told me back in the spring that they were looking at selectively reviving some older patterns (reread the interview).

Codger
 
Ted, lay them side by side, springs down with the clip blade open and tell me what you see. Repeat with each of the other blades. Now, it is true that the blades are thinner along the spine, but does it follow that they are weaker? C/O did not do this to save material, obviously because they are the same stock thickness. No, Blades by material reduction are standard. And they do crink and nest well. The mirror finish of the C/O blades does win hands down over the crocus finish of the UH, though on a user knife blade it is a moot point after the sale. It will be a while before I can report on the user strength of the blades. I have two more pool liners to remove and install, but the new construction jobs have put those two on hold for the time being. The best I can do is report it's performance on two new liners with the tedioud opening of the inlets and returns, lights, and stair faces. The true test comes when reducing a ten year old liner to managable rolls of vinyl. Generally that is about 450 linier feet of cuts through gunk, stiffened vinyl, and underlying concrete. Then being sharp enough to cut the palstic bands and tape on the new liner box.

Codger
 
Do all UH's have carbon steel springs? I bought a UH trapper in commemoration of Schrade's demise and it seems the springs are carbon. Thought maybe that was an end-of-the-line frankenSchrade thing.
 
I have several old UH stockmen and they all have carbon steel springs, also my 34OT from a couple of years ago and with stainless blades has carbon steel springs.

Luis
 
There seems to have been a gradual switch over. My older UH folders (2002 and earlier) do have stainless backsprings, but my newer ones do not. I don't have a problem with it, but then I keep all my knives lubed, so tarnishing is not a problem, much less rusting and pitting.

Codger
 
I have very sweaty hands. There's one thing worse than carbon steel blades (which I can live with): carbon springs.
 
Wow Codger you have become a knife reviewer. interesting. I do remember your affialiation with Colonial. Hey there may be a future in this. Say hello to Steve tell him that he is welcome to post himself should he deign to do so. One thing is for sure there will be knives and someone will make them. LT
 
Nope LT, no affiliation, but I did e-mail Steve and ask him to answer the questions on or off the board. I guess I am an amature reviewer of sorts, but I certainly have not sought nor seen any money in it. I just find the knives interesting, and Colonial is as close to a Schrade as we have left, both in heritage and product. As a matter of fact, I have reviewed Schrade knives from an engineering point of view ten or twelve to one over other brands. As much as I am fond of Schrade knives (which will be with us far longer than my ability to hoard them), there is a market and need for newly produced knives from a company still around to back them. Steve, it so happens, has been more open and responsive to questions than any of the other big dogs left on the block, and the fact that Colonial was reborn after the same assault that took Schrade down adds a bit of underdog empathy for me. Bear has never responded to my inquires. Neither have most of the other companies excluding Boker. And everyone, licensed or not, is producing, or planning to produce Schrade patterns. How well they do it is, or should be of interest to us all. Do you remember the Studebaker Avanti? The original was a Raymond Loewy design and a beauty. A real wowser that was slated from the get-go to save the ailing company. I am not saying this will be the case with the Schrade patterns, but I think we owe it to ourselves to see what is being produced to fill a huge market gap, and to honestly evaluate them (short of buying rope from the hangman). I certainly welcome dissenting opinions to my impressions of the Old Cutler Baer pattern Stockman (whatever Colonial names it), and agree that the blades are weakened at the tang by the thinning of the spine, but Is it a fatal flaw? I have broken blade tips by abuse, but never a whole blade at the tang. Not even on a dime store Japanese knife (remember thos tin knives?). I remember well the bitter taste of the "Made in Occupied Japan" on toys and trinkets, then just "Made in Japan". China is the new Japan, an emerging manufacturing competator that by hook or crook is taking American manufacturing jobs. And using our technology, machinery, and patents (and money) they are catching up on quality, much as Japan did. That doesn't mean I will buy their products. I just trashed a Craftsman Sabre saw that was less than a year old. Sears won't stand behind it, and the manufacturer (tiny print) is in China. So much for Craftsman quality.

Codger

Codger
 
So much for almost everything American the latest rumor has IBM talking Japanese. Not much longer and all we will have left to export will be road kill. Since they are not protected and support the auto industry ( which is to a large extent foreign.) LT
 
Our answers from Steve Paolantonio, grandson of Colonial founder Antonio Paolantonio:

"The Colonial Old Cutler was introduced to compete with the Old Timer
and due to it's reasonable price and very good quality the Old Cutler became an OEM knife for many knife companies, that is to say that companies such as Camillus, Buck, Russell Harrington, K-Bar, Colonel Coon Knives, Winchester and a number of other knife companies bought the Colonial Old Cutler under their own name for resale. Used mostly as collectors editions the other knife companies used the Old Cutler manufactured by Colonial so as not to tie up thier regular production lines. The knife companies would supply their own packaging, etc. And therefore we at Colonial were very pleased with the sales of the Old Cutler and never made a big push on the Old Cutler brand since we did not want to slow the sales of our customers efforts especially since many of them had a larger market share for high end knives at that particular time than did Colonial.

(on the Stockman )
Model number is S-430 with a Suggested retail of $30.00

Now, you need to understand that the suggested retail and what it is actually sold for is two different things. Suggested retail is just that...suggested, and most likely the S-430 will be sold at around $24.00. this may seem high to those who were use to buying the Schrade for $13.00 at Wal-Mart however Schrade went out of business because they were selling their knives below cost.
American made knives are very expensive compared to the China made stuff.

(On the blade steel )
We use the popular and easy to obtain 440 series of high carbon stainless steel.
We continue to add to the Old Cutler series each year. "

Best Regards,
Steve
Colonial
 
Did he just send that? If so that is damn nice I am amazed, he does not know how much I for one, appreciate his taking the time and caring enough to explain his companies position and practices. Thankyou to both of you. LT
 
knifeaholic said:
Any idea what other OLD CUTLER patterns are offered now....?
Click to expand...

Steve E-mailed me today that he is sending me an update sheet for my Colonial catalog, so we should know soon what Old Cutler patterns they are putting back into production this year.

Codger
 
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