Another NYC Story

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Dec 7, 2005
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I just hung up with my friend who is a Captain in Queens, NYC and we were discussing the knife law for a minute as we grew up together and as teens always had a pocket knife on us. He is as I was, someone who never brothered a guy for just having a knife. He told me an officer in his command arrested three people solely for possession of steak knives. My friend informed the officer that they were not illegal knives, but a Sargent that works for him stated that when he was called to the scene for the arrest, one of the people said they were carrying the knives for self defense and that qualified the knives as "dangerous weapons" since there was intent to use them as weapons. My friend allowed it to go the the ADA, who brought weapons charges against the three. My friend felt for sure the ADA would have not allowed the charges to go forward. This is as bad as it gets.

A knife is always a TOOL and do not acrry anything weapon like anywhere in NYC !!!!!
 
This is EXACTLY why I tell everyone to carry knives that have another legitimate purpose for being carried, not self defense. Only simpleton amateurs should be saying that they carry their knife for self defense purposes.
 
While I agree with your advice, I'm nonetheless disgusted and appalled at the current state of our society. When the phrase "self-defense" can get you arrested and convicted of a crime, without any illegal conduct on your part, then we have truly sacrificed individual rights and freedoms in exchange for a false sense of social order. It's a definite sign of decay which infests urban life these days.
 
I could not agree more. If you want to see the US in 5 years just look at the UK.
 
Not to get on the political soapbox too much, but this is another reason why we must do anything we can to prevent certain politicians from bringing "international law" and the U.N. into our legal and justice systems. What that means is simple: vote out the ones who want our country to follow the U.K., Australia and South Africa with regard to the keeping and bearing of arms.
 
If the individuals would have stated that they just purchased the noted knives to take home, would the outcome have been any different? That being said, I am sure they would be asked to show a receipt.
 
Whoops.

I visited NYC with a few of my friends over christmas break and was carrying my normal EDC, a Buck Tempest AO 3.25" and I also had a 5" fixed Buck knife in my bag. Damn good thing a LEO didn't notice my pocketclip or it looks like i'd be up shit-creek.

If you get charged with carrying a knife too big or having an illegal opening system, does it count as a weapons felony and prevent you from purchasing firearms? I travel fairly often and I don't want to get in trouble going from one state to another just by carrying the same knife.
 
Whoops.

I visited NYC with a few of my friends over christmas break and was carrying my normal EDC, a Buck Tempest AO 3.25" and I also had a 5" fixed Buck knife in my bag. Damn good thing a LEO didn't notice my pocketclip or it looks like i'd be up shit-creek.

If you get charged with carrying a knife too big or having an illegal opening system, does it count as a weapons felony and prevent you from purchasing firearms? I travel fairly often and I don't want to get in trouble going from one state to another just by carrying the same knife.

I dont know about a felony. But you are responsible for knowing and abiding by any and every state's knife law. Yes, even if you are are just traveling through.

I like to travel, mostly by car. I've gone through NY, live in Mass and all over new England. Who feels like changing which knife to carry every time you go step foot into another state? Not me. The goal is to remain safe on the road while not being in too much legal risk. I don't own a gun, and I've had people try to jump me while at a pit stop before. I'm a scrawny looking kid, so I do carry a knife.
I keep a big maglight flashlight in the back pocket of the passenger side seat. I also carry a small knife where ever I go, on my person. Usually a Boker subcom or one of the different variations. These knives are almost always legal for carry.
In the past I have wanted to transport some larger knives. That's not much of an issue unless you for some reason let a cop search your car. Which would entail him wanting to search your car. Just don't put the knife on your person. If you want to be really safe, put the knife in a bag, and keep it in your trunk.

If you want to carry it from your car to your friends house just keep whatevers illegal in a bag. If a cop wants to search he has to show probable cause. Same deal with the car.
 
This is sooo confusing!! I am a painter and my favorite pocket knife is the Yojimbo. I use it in my studio and in my office. I live in NYC, have never broken the law, look totally nonthreatening, and never wear my SPydercos with the clip showing, they are always buried deep in my pocket when I am in public....

Are there any LEOs here in NYC that can clarify that if I am stopped for whatever reason that I would be arrested for having a Yojimbo, or Lava? I really do use them as utility pocket knives, I love the designs, and am certainly not living in an area where I need to be actively thinking about self defense issues. Their primary use is for cutting boxes, canvas, paper.... I guess the primary issue, as with all Spydercos, is that you can grab the blade by the whole and open the knife by flicking so that the handle flips out opening the knife....

Also, if, god willing this never happens, I do find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself and it looks like a life-or-death situation and I do need to deploy a Spyderco, would I be arrested for having a 'deadly weapon'? It;'s crazy, you can by Spydercos in Union Square at Paragon!!! How can you sell a pocket knife in the city and then say you can't use it as a pocket knife in the city? Confusing up the wazzooo!
 
Just answer the last point you bring up. Legal to possess and legal to carry can often be very different things.
 
Mike, I am a former NYC LEO, and as long as you can flick it open then it is a gravity knife. NYC has gotten very bad lately about enforceing this law. I agree that they should not be allowed to sell them since that is just as illegal. If it is in your pocket then a search must be justified to find it. Yes, you would be charged with possession of a deadly weapon is you used it to defend yourself.
 
I have a question for this forum since were on the topic already. I will be going to NYC next week, and after hearing all these stories I wanted to get your advice. I got a small spyrderco jester that is my EDC, if in the rare event I get searched will that cause any problems? Or am I better off just leaving it home this trip?
 
Mike, I am a former NYC LEO, and as long as you can flick it open then it is a gravity knife.
I know that many people believe this, but factually it is not true. Go ahead and find out what a real gravity knife is, and you will agree.
 
I know that many people believe this, but factually it is not true. Go ahead and find out what a real gravity knife is, and you will agree.

i'm an LEO in NY and yes, i know what a gravity knife is as i own a few.

but when the law was drafted the state defined 'gravity knife' as one that opens with centrifugal force:

-------------------------------------------

State law
§ 265.00. Definitions

5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.

-------------------------------------------

-poorly written
-broadly applicable

my Spyderco Rescue is very easy to 'flick' open because of the large hump and heavy blade. under the above definition, it is very much a 'gravity knife' in NY.

it gets even weirder with balisongs. while only named specifically illegal in NYC, in the rest of the state they are -considered- illegal and prosecuted as 'gravity knives' based on the the centrifugal force wording. the only relevant case i know is Mott v. Jefferson Co. (1984), where a judge ruled that a butterfly knife did not lock as part of being swung open (separate action) and therefor was not a gravity knife under the definition. now it's just a big grey area. you may very well be arrested for it, have to bail out, go to court and hope the judge sees it the same way as the other one.
 
Just curious, do we have any up-state LEOs on these forums? Just would like to see how they view knives for folks hiking and such. I would like to know what the mood has been like up-state.
 
Just curious, do we have any up-state LEOs on these forums? Just would like to see how they view knives for folks hiking and such. I would like to know what the mood has been like up-state.

i'm outside Utica. i've only been a LEO(state) for about 2.5 years. for many years before that i carried fixed blades openly in my area with no hassle. i mentioned on another forum recently that the only time an officer mentioned my knife was when the State Troopers were clearing out a bar after a fight and i was stopped for i.d. and told that i probably shouldn't be wearing a knife in a bar. it was a Spyderco Moran.

as a camper/hiker i'd say leave your hatchet or large fixed blade in the car if you go into town, but pretty much everyone i know has a pocket clipped knife and/or a Leatherman on their belt.

on the weekends i still carry Scandi style knives hanging off my belt with no comments.

simple answer, once you get outside NYC things lighten up considerably.
 
Metis, I agree with most of what you have said except for the NYC ban on butterfly knives. The NYPD does go after them first as if they were gravity knives( there are five cases that have ruled they are not due to non locking of the knife) and they may consider them dangerous knives if they can prove intent. Here is the NYC ADMIN CODE link....section 10-133 and 134 are the ones to look at....http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS

10-133 Possession of knives or instruments. a. Legislative findings.
It is hereby declared and found that the possession in public places,
streets and parks of the city, of large knives is a menace to the public
health, peace, safety and welfare of the people of the city; that the
possession in public places, streets and parks of such knives has
resulted in the commission of many homicides, robberies, maimings and
assaults of and upon the people of the city; that this condition
encourages and fosters the commission of crimes, and contributes to
juvenile delinquency, youth crime and gangsterism; that unless the
possession or carrying in public places, streets and parks of the city
of such knives without a lawful purpose is prohibited, there is danger
of an increase in crimes of violence and other conditions detrimental to
public peace, safety and welfare. It is further declared and found that
the wearing or carrying of knives in open view in public places while
such knives are not being used for a lawful purpose is unnecessary and
threatening to the public and should be prohibited.
b. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry on his or her person
or have in such person's possession, in any public place, street, or
park any knife which has a blade length of four inches or more.
c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or
park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any
knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually
using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of
this section.
d. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this section shall not
apply to (1) persons in the military service of the state of New York
when duly authorized to carry or display knives pursuant to regulations
issued by the chief of staff to the governor; (2) police officers and
peace officers as defined in the criminal procedure law; (3)
participants in special events when authorized by the police
commissioner; (4) persons in the military or other service of the United
States, in pursuit of official duty authorized by federal law; (5)
emergency medical technicians or voluntary or paid ambulance drivers
while engaged in the performance of their duties; or (6) any person
displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this
section when such knife (a) is being used for or transported immediately
to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping,
hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily
requiring the use of such knife; or (b) is displayed or carried by a
member of a theatrical group, drill team, military or para-military unit
or veterans organization, to, from, or during a meeting, parade or other
performance or practice for such event, which customarily requires the
carrying of such knife; or (c) is being transported directly to or from
a place of purchase, sharpening or repair, packaged in such a manner as
not to allow easy access to such knife while it is transported; or (d)
is displayed or carried by a duly enrolled member of the Boy or Girl
Scouts of America or a similar organization or society and such display
or possession is necessary to participate in the activities of such
organization or society.
e. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine
of not more than three hundred dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding
fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment

§ 10-134 Prohibition on sale of certain knives. a. Legislative
findings. It is hereby declared and found that the possession in public
places, streets and parks of the city, of folding knives which lock upon
opening, is a menace to the public health, peace, safety and welfare of
the people of the city; that the possession in public places, streets
and parks of such knives has resulted in the commission of many
homicides, robberies, maimings and assaults of and upon the people of
the city, that this condition encourages and fosters the commission of
crimes, and contributes to juvenile delinquency, youth crime and
gangsterism; that if this situation is not addressed, then there is a
danger of an increase in crimes of violence, and other conditions
detrimental to public peace, safety and welfare. It has been found that
folding knives with a blade of four (4) inches or more that locks in an
open position are designed and used almost exclusively for the purpose
of stabbing or the threat thereof. Therefore for the safety of the city,
such weapons should be prohibited from sale within the jurisdiction of
the city of New York.
b. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, or offer for sale
within the jurisdiction of the city of New York, any folding knife with
a blade length of four or more inches which is so constructed that when
it is opened it is locked in an open position and cannot be closed
without depressing or moving a release mechanism.
c. Exempt from this section are importers and exporters or merchants
who ship or receive locking folding knives, with a blade length of four
or more inches, in bulk, which knives are scheduled to travel or have
travelled in the course of international, interstate, or intrastate
commerce to a point outside the city. Such bulk shipments shall remain
in their original shipping package, unopened, except for inspection and
possible subdivision for further movement in interstate or intrastate
commerce to a point outside the city.
d. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine
of not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750) or by imprisonment
not exceeding fifteen days (15) or both such fine and imprisonment. Any
person violating this section shall be subject to a civil penalty not to
exceed one thousand dollars for each violation.
 
Thanks for the input Metis!

I hunt up in the Adirondacks and always have a large knife on me (Ranger, Gryphon, etc.) as well as a small one. Simply put, I cannot imagine NOT having one.

About three or four years ago I was out hunting from 4am through 5pm. I was so tired and decided to go into town and eat at a diner. I walked in and totally forgot that I was wearing my large bowie. Three officers were sitting there, looked up at me and went back to their dinner. It was like the knife was not even there.
 
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