another Sebenza thread .... (don't look now)

theonew

theonew

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May 16, 2006
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Speaking as someone who is rapidly succumbing to the lure of the Sebenza, I would like to ask the following: Today I received a new Benchmade Griptilian 551 in 154CM and I was at first stunned by how smooth the action was and then stunned by how cleverly designed the Axis lock is and how well it worked. (Ok I'm a bit of a noob). So my question is does the action and lock of a Sebenza really feel a lot better than a Benchmade like this. I just can't imagine something smoother and sturdier than this knife. Without a doubt the Sebenza looks more aesthetically pleasing, has a higher grade of steel for the blade and the Benchmade flirts on the edge of having a cheap feeling handle, but all that aside I would like to hear peoples opinions just regarding the action and lock.
 
I have both kinds of folders. Smooth as the sebbie is, a griptilian is smoother !! My opinion.
 
The axis lock takes ALOT less energy to open - it can even be "flicked." The Axis lock is fantastic and extremely user friendly. Its only complaint is that it feels a little light and inconsequential.

However, the solid engagment of the Sebenza lock feels like a vault being closed. The first time I handled it - I hated it due to the tightness of the lock. However, after visiting a local shop and handling the owner's USED Sebenza, the broken-in sensation can only be described as buttery.
 
fleetparadox said:
However, the solid engagment of the Sebenza lock feels like a vault being closed. The first time I handled it - I hated it due to the tightness of the lock. However, after visiting a local shop and handling the owner's USED Sebenza, the broken-in sensation can only be described as buttery.
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What you describe gives me pause towards buying a Sebenza. If the lock has to be overtightened from the factory to compensate for later use and only feels buttery after a certain numbers of uses, that says to me that parts need to wear down to feel smooth and that it can't be too long after that for them to wear down to the point that they feel sloppy.

What impresses me the most about the axis lock is that it seems to have a wide margin of self-adjusting compensation capabilities as wear and tear takes its toll.
 
theonew said:
If the lock has to be overtightened from the factory to compensate for later use and only feels buttery after a certain numbers of uses, that says to me that parts need to wear down to feel smooth and that it can't be too long after that for them to wear down to the point that they feel sloppy.
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This is nothing like the reality. A new Sebenza should be stiffer than any axis lock folder. A tank is "stiffer" than a race car. A bit of lubrication, working the blade a bit to get the moving parts rubbing each other smooth -- it IS all metal -- and you'll be good to go for years and years and years ... and then it can be refurbished to new again.

It's not made to be slickery smooth. It's made to open with control and lock in place. When you pull back an axis bar and flick the blade open, it flies out and snaps into place. When you thumbflick a Sebenza open, the blade moves out and then damps, due to the friction of meticulously close tolerances.
 
What impresses me least about an axis lock is the finicky small parts inaccessible inside the handle. The Sebenza integral lock is almost self-cleaning like a balisong, each time it opens or closes, any dirt is knocked out.

You can clean a deer with a Sebenza and shake it back and forth in a stream to clean it. Do the same with an axis folder and you can't clean it without disassembly, which is not nearly as easy as disassembling the Sebenza when you want to.
 
Esav,

I think in an indirect way I share Theonew's worry about Sebenza's mechanism.

True, it will probably never fail compared to an Axis lock... (which makes my question pointless)

But - the "loosening" of framelock seems dependent on the frame bar not putting as much pressure on the blade, which means something is losing tension... right?

Does that mean something is eventually going to wear out? as in lose tension?
 
I guess I just really need to handle a Sebenza to understand all this.

I still fail to understand why a $350 knife can't come pre-lubricated with it moving parts already smooth and ready for the "years and years and years" of use.
 
You really both need to handle the Sebenza to begin to understand. The relative tightness or looseness or stiffness or smoothness is hard to understand from words on a page. It is not a major difference.

fleetparadox, the tension is within the pivot, not the lock. The stiffness is a function of the extremely tight tolerances to which the Sebenza's parts are machined. theonew, Chris Reeve could certainly set up a machine to open & close, open & close, open & close his knives before shipping. What's the point? A bit of use and they will do fine.
 
I find benchmade's actions to be somewhat nicer and certainly a lot faster than the few sebenzas I've played with.
 
Theonew .... think of it like a car no matter if its a 10,000 dollar kia or a 100,000 mercedez both need to be broken it a little bit first.

In reality the benchmade is probably smoother, however the sebenza is a very smooth knife and in the long run will probably outlast the benchmade.
 
To really understand the the difference in tolerances you have to take the knife apart and reassemble.

The Griptilian is no doubt a very well made knife but, take one apart. The tolerances are tight, don't get me wrong there, but there is a certain amount of play.

Take the Sebenza apart. Every thing has to go in perfectly or it will not go in. And if you do get it together and everything isn't perfect it wont open / close properly.

Also, try to move your blade side to side in the Griptilian while the knife is closed. It will move. Now take the Sebenza and do the same. It is rock solid every time. That is due to the pivot. Something with that tight of tolerances can't be expected to fly open like the Griptilian does.

The frame lock on the Sebenza is hardend at the point where it makes contact with the blade. It will take a long time before it gets worn out. And has plenty of room for wear.:thumbup:

A lot of the "buttery" feel that comes with a broke in Sebenza is from the track that the ball detent rides in while opening and closing. The part of the tang where the track rides is stonewashed from the factory so, it has microscopic ridges in the steel that need to get worn smooth along with the surfaces of the washers that need to be worn smooth to achieve that "buttery" feel. The Griptilian has a looser fit so those microscopic ridges aren't as much as a problem.

I hope that helps in answering your question.:D
 
Gotcha mm3. Thanks for the explanation.

That sounds like the same story line that my local knife store guru told me.

Lousy stonewash... haha.
 
mm3 said:
Take the Sebenza apart. Every thing has to go in perfectly or it will not go in. And if you do get it together and everything isn't perfect it wont open / close properly.
Click to expand...

True, but in a limited sense, limited to the washers. Those are the problem with not putting it together just right, nothing else. And the problem is easily corrected.
 
sebbie has less parts, and feels much more solid because of that fact (i am a proud new owner of a sebbie)
It applies to a rule that is all too often overlooked, and that is the kiss method (keep is super simple, or keep it simple, stupid.)
 
I have a large classsic Sebenza and just purhcasd a Benchmade 551. I carry both when gardening and only the Benchmade gets a "gritty" feel to the blade movement after outdoor use. I have disassembled the 551 three times to get it cleaned and only cleaned the Seb once. When I set the blade tension on the Benchmade, if I get the wobble out the blade is too tight. Loosen the blade so it can be flicked open easily and the wobble is back. The Seb is a tad to the tight side compared to other Sebs I have had, but I like it this way and I am sure it loosen up some with use. The 551 is my first Axis lock and will be my last. I will stay with frame and liner locks...
 
People often use different definitions of the word "smooth" when it comes to opening folding knives. I personally think a knife blade can be very tight and take a lot of effort to open, yet still have a smooth, polished action. The opposite of smooth by this definition is "gritty". When you have a rough, gritty opening, you can hear and/or feel parts rubbing against the liners or blade, or grinding against each other. A blade might be easy to open, but still be gritty, even after the knife has been thoroughly cleaned.

A new Sebenza will likely be difficult to open (more force has to be applied to the thumbstud), due to the remarkably tight tolerances, but it should still be smooth. Both liner locks and frame locks have the potential to open very smoothly because, aside from the washers (and bushing in the Sebenza's case), the only part that rubs against the blade is the bearing in the lock bar. As another poster mentioned, the ball bearing will eventually burnish a path along the blade and create an almost frictionless feel when the knife is opened.

It's been awhile since I've handled an Axis lock. The only one I've owned was a 707 (which I really liked, BTW). The Axis lock opens a lot easier than a Sebenza, but I could detect a little hint of grittiness in my Sequel. There are more moving parts rubbing against each other in an Axis lock: the axis bar pushes against the tang, rides back and forth in the slots in the liners, and also causes the omega springs to scrape against the liners. After I took the Axis lock apart and lubed everything (putting grease on the omega springs helped a lot), it had an extremely smooth opening, but it still wasn't quite as good as my higher quality liner locks or Sebenza.
 
After having a Sebenza and a few Axis locked knives my experience is that a fresh out of the box Benchmade will likely have a lighter feel than a Seb. In time the Seb will be almost as smooth, but with a consistent amount of force required everytime to open it. If you reassemble with a reasonable amount of torque to the fasteners on a Seb, it will open with the same feel everytime, after breakin, that is smooth. The way they are built means you cannot really to any degree change the opening action due to pivot screw tension as you would with a Benchmade.

The Sebenza does not have a lock system as complex as a Benchmade (omega spring). The Benchmade you have, as are mine, is a well built knife, the Sebenza is built better and likely I'll buy another Seb before another Benchmade.
 
I love Benchmade Knifes.Own a few,Use them all.A working mans knife for sure. My EDC for 12 years was a Mini Reflex and it is as good as the day I bought it.I retired it for a sexy MT Ultratech. That being said, I dont own a Sebbie. But want one big time!

Comparing a Benchmade to a Sebbie is comparing apples to hand grenades.
 
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